wda Posted September 23, 2013 Share #21 Posted September 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) And there seems to be a noticeable green shift as well... Or is it increased saturation? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 23, 2013 Posted September 23, 2013 Hi wda, Take a look here M9 ISO Performance - New Life. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
JimKasson Posted September 23, 2013 Share #22 Posted September 23, 2013 (edited) With the M9, I can't find any contrast boost when pushing with the Exposure control in Lightroom 5.2 under PV2012, although there is a slight contrast loss in the shadows with a five-stop Exposure boost. I used the Sekonic step wedge for a target. Details here: Does pushing in Lr add contrast? | The Last Word Coming: an analysis of chromaticity errors and similar work with the M240. Jim Edited September 23, 2013 by JimKasson Add image 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share #23 Posted September 23, 2013 The technical stuff is interesting, but the point is that the pictures in a few candelas of light are gorgeous: 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted September 23, 2013 Share #24 Posted September 23, 2013 Harold, this is great! And it shows that M9 now is really good for high ISO: one simply can't just consider the resuls "on paper"; one has to use one's eyes and see the marvelous colors that one can get with the M9 using this push technique with LR5. (I don't know about other software in this respect, but I'll stick with what I know works). —Mitch/Paris Tristes Tropiques [WIP] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted September 23, 2013 Share #25 Posted September 23, 2013 With the M9, I can't find any contrast boost when pushing with the Exposure control in Lightroom 5.2 under PV2012, although there is a slight contrast loss in the shadows with a five-stop Exposure boost...Thanks, Jim. I think that it's a mistake to assume that a digital sensor will behave like film in pushing — one just has to examine the results are you are doing. Similarly, some people objected to the "Shoot at ISO 640 and push" technique because (with film, again) "it's always best to get the exposure right in camera." —Mitch/Paris Tristes Tropiques [WIP] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share #26 Posted September 23, 2013 Harold, this is great! And it shows that M9 now is really good for high ISO: one simply can't just consider the resuls "on paper"; one has to use one's eyes and see the marvelous colors that one can get with the M9 using this push technique with LR5. (I don't know about other software in this respect, but I'll stick with what I know works). —Mitch/Paris Tristes Tropiques [WIP] many thanks. your pictures are excellent street examples which people should view. the thing I really like about this technique, as you indicate, is that it is exposure neutral. i.e. once you are in the "zone" (out of possible correct exposure for ISO 640) you can set the speed and aperture to what you want, bearing in mind trying to allow the maximum amount of light in. In the above shot the camera indicated 1/5-1/8 but I set 1/30 which gives an indication of the push. It also shows how precise the focus of the M9 is even in low light (in this case at f1.7). Lastly despite the technical talk above I notice no deterioration of the colours. In this picture I have enhanced them slightly as I would normally do with a daylight picture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted September 23, 2013 Share #27 Posted September 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...the thing I really like about this technique, as you indicate, is that it is exposure neutral...Thanks. This is a particularly important point for street night photography, as in my Thai night shots because the streets are very dark (mostly without street lamps) and the light comes from various sources, which makes determining the "correct" exposure difficult in such a dynamic situation, particularly when using wide angle lenses. (The sM9 eries below my signature has 96 pictures, or which 1/2 are night shots, almost all using the technique being discussed here. —Mitch/Paris Tristes Tropiques [WIP] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted September 24, 2013 Share #28 Posted September 24, 2013 bocaburger, you may want to upgrade to LR4, or better yet, LR5. They both have Process PV2012, which, as Jim Kasson states above, compresses like film rather than clipping highlights — a big improvement over PV2010. LR5 has a new Rdial Filter tool that is very good for dodging and burning. —Mitch/Paris Thanks, probably I should. Do you know if I upgrade my desktop can I also upgrade my laptop for no extra cost like I could with the LR3 that came with the M9, or will I have to pay twice? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted September 24, 2013 Share #29 Posted September 24, 2013 LR is pay once for both desktop and laptop. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKasson Posted September 24, 2013 Share #30 Posted September 24, 2013 I've done the study of chromaticity errors with gray-axis tones over a five-stop push range with Exposure (Lr 5.2, PV2012). Except for the 5 stop push, all the errors, as measured by differences from the unpushed image, are less than 4 Delta-Eab. Details here. Also included in the above post are the Macbeth chart images for the unpushed and all the M9 pushed exposures. You are welcome to measure color errors on the off-axis colors. I may get to it myself, but first I'm going to look at the M240 results. I expect the green shadows will start to be significant in the four and five stop pushes. Jim 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKasson Posted September 24, 2013 Share #31 Posted September 24, 2013 I haven't had time to analyze the M240 push images, but I'm posting them now in case anyone wants to beat me to it. Characterizing the Leica M240, part 26 | The Last Word I hope to get to them tomorrow or the next day. Jim 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKasson Posted September 24, 2013 Share #32 Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) I've done the M240 studies. The green shadows problem is obvious. The errors are acceptable for the one and two stop pushes, marginal for the three stop push, and unacceptable for the four and five stop pushes. http://www.kasson.com/ll/chromaticity%20errors%20m240.PNG Details: Characterizing the Leica M240, part 27 | The Last Word Jim Edited September 24, 2013 by JimKasson Add image 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted September 25, 2013 Share #33 Posted September 25, 2013 I did experiment a little last night with my M9-P in low light, about 1/30th at ISO 2500. Tried 1/30th at ISO 640 and it was a little better using LR to adjust but still very grainy I adjusted both 1 stop for 2500 and 3+ stops for 640. Seems if there is no light the issue is simply that, no light ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted September 25, 2013 Share #34 Posted September 25, 2013 Applying three stops push to ISO 640 yields ISO 5120. If you're comparing to ISO 2500, you should use a push of 2 stops (ISO 2560). Bad, flat light will result in bad, flat pictures. —Mitch/Paris Bangkok Hysteria [download link for book project] Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted September 25, 2013 Share #35 Posted September 25, 2013 Applying three stops push to ISO 640 yields ISO 5120. If you're comparing to ISO 2500, you should use a push of 2 stops (ISO 2560). Bad, flat light will result in bad, flat pictures. —Mitch/Paris Bangkok Hysteria [download link for book project] I pushed the 2500 one stop and the 640 three (very low light) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted September 25, 2013 Author Share #36 Posted September 25, 2013 Pushing 2500 is probably a bit "seat of your pants" unless the light is good Essentially LR can't recreate a scene from inky black. Bits that are totally black can be recovered but by default you are recovering loads of noise at that level. Pushing works well where the objects have some light on them and you are ok with blacked out bits of the photo remaining fairly dark. The best camera I have used for ISO performance is oddly enough the Fuji X100s (better then the RX1 IMHO), but there is loads of grain at 3200 if you want detail. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted September 25, 2013 Share #37 Posted September 25, 2013 I'll have a play and see what the difference looks like at say EV 4 ISO 160 which is about 1/4 s at F2, so if I shoot at 1/30th then I can lift 3 stops via LR. I'll then try 1/30th at ISO 1280 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted September 25, 2013 Share #38 Posted September 25, 2013 Has anyone done similar experiments with Capture One Pro 7? A while back, I did a quick-and-dirty comparison with my M8 and Capture One 6, just between 640, 1250 and 640 with -1.0 stop exposure compensation. I thought the underexposed 640 was a *little* better than the 1250, but it was at the pixel-peeping level. Then again, Capture One 7's low light abilities are supposed to be much better that Version 6. --Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimKasson Posted September 25, 2013 Share #39 Posted September 25, 2013 Has anyone done similar experiments with Capture One Pro 7? The work that I did was on the raw files, the presumption being that any raw converter would have an easier time when faced with a better signal-to-noise ratio in the raw files. I have tested this assumption with two raw converters, Lr/ACR and Iridient Developer, and it is true for those raw converters, although I didn't test all possible settings. The assumption has a certain reasonableness, but cannot be guaranteed to be true for all possible raw conversion/noise reduction algorithms. Jim 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted September 25, 2013 Share #40 Posted September 25, 2013 The technical stuff is interesting, but the point is that the pictures in a few candelas of light are gorgeous: Lovely photo. Was the young lady wearing lipstick? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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