28mm Summicron vs Elmarit

[skinnfell]

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This is yet another which-28mm-post. However, I am considering to "downgrade" (!).

 

I currently own the 28/2, but am getting increasingly bothered by this lens' massive vignetting. The even more massive hood is usually left at home. Although i have yet to have it flare badly, I do find that hoods do a good job protecting the front from dings etc. And there is always the rare, but infamous "summicron-28-disease" in which the hood actually makes the front part of the lens come off. That said I do sincerely enjoy the sharpness of this lens, one which extends to the far (dark) corners of my pictures. Ultimately, corner sharpness is more important than darkness. Although I am a photojournalist, I do a fair bit of architectural work, where a "clinical" lens is preferable.

 

So here is are my questions to anyone who has actually tried/owned BOTH of these lenses:

- Does the elmarit have comparable corner sharpness to the summicron?

- Do/did you notice the (specified) less vignetting on the Elmarit?

- Any other advantage/ disadvantage I should be aware of?

 

Thanks in advance for input.

[Bill W]

I would not call it downgrading really. I owned the Elmarit before I bought my cron. I would guess my 28 cron is the oldest lens I currently own. For no particular reason I sold my Elmarit and went without a 28 till I got the corn. I consider both to be sharp especially when stopped down. I do not recall any vignetting issues with my Elmarit. The Elmarit is small and light.

I think I have conviced myself of the need to buy one now.

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[Guest Marc G.]

I had the Elmarit and bought the Summicron. I compared them quickly to get a feeling. The Elmarit does have vignetting albeit less than the Summicron. The Summicron is very slightly sharper in the corners wide open than the Elmarit. I doubt you would see this every time.

 

I don't think the hood gets in the way. It is big but it protects the lens perfectly, so why fix it if it ain't broken. After all these are lenses, not pretty looking lifestyle accessories...

 

Other than that: the summicron is the best lens I ever tested. It has a wonderful rendering and is my preferred lens when I go out to cover something for the newspaper. It never let me down and I never thought of going back to my Elmarit again. Sold it anyway... you cannot go wrong with either lens. You already have the Summicron. I think it would be a mistake to trade it in.

[ananda]

I sold the Summicron 28 to raise some money for the M240, and bought the 28 Elmarit, too, along with the M. Came out ahead if I include the sale of the M9, too, and I really don't see much difference in the 2 lenses. Indeed, I love the smallness of the Elmarit and it is the lens that stays on my camera the most of the 2 lenses I have.

[01af]

There's the (old) Elmarit—several of them, actually—and the (current) Elmarit Asph. Which one are you talking about?

 

Judging from the MTF diagrams, when ultimate corner sharpness is paramount then you cannot do any better than with the Summicron Asph. Still, the Elmarits are no slouches, and with the possible exception of f/2.8, you'll be hard-pressed to see any actual difference to the Summicron Asph in real life.

 

The vignetting is just the same in the Summicron Asph and Elmarit Asph, and very slighty (probably insignificantly) better in the Elmarit (IV). Distortion is low in the Elmarit (IV) and very low in the Elmarit Asph and Summicron Asph.

 

So if your main problem is vignetting then I'm afraid switching to one of the Elmarits won't help. What you could try instead is one of the old manual-focus SLR 28 mm 1:2 lenses (Canon FD, Konica AR, Nikon AI Nikkor, Minolta MC/MD Rokkor, Olympus OM Zuiko, Pentax etc.) on an appropriate Novoflex adapter. Get a 1:2 lens because at f/2.8 and f/4, they usually will vignette less than their 1:2.8 counterparts. Those SLR lenses have longer exit pupil distances than rangefinder lenses so chances are that they will vignette less on a full-frame digital camera. Of course, on any M model except the M (Typ 240) you'd be restricted to scale focusing or zone focusing ...

[Ecar]

- Any other advantage/ disadvantage I should be aware of?

 

I have both. They render quite differently, particularly when it comes to overall contrast. Make sure you are happy with the Elmarit's.

Another 28mm I like is the CV Ultron, although it doesn't generally seem to be a much loved lens (possibly down to sample variation issues?). I find it's muted, pastel-like color palette interesting in particular circumstances.

[jankap]

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So here is are my questions to anyone who has actually tried/owned BOTH of these lenses:

- Does the elmarit have comparable corner sharpness to the summicron?

- Do/did you notice the (specified) less vignetting on the Elmarit?

- Any other advantage/ disadvantage I should be aware of?

 

I have tried/owned neither Summicron nor Elmarit(?!).

Downgrade? Yes, you loose the f/2.0.

If you compare the technical data provided by Leica, you will see, that the Summicron from 2.8 upwards is comparable with the Elmarit.

Jan

 

PS. I fight against GAS by reading the technical data.

[wda]

For practical purposes, I doubt that you will detect any difference at normal operating apertures. You will notice that you have a slightly lighter and more compact piece of kit in your hands, a worthy attribute on long journeys.

[Stein K S]

I have both... and they are both obviously great lenses. However, have had the Elmarit for a while... and find it to be somewhat "clinical" for my taste. When buying the cron, I found the rendering quite different... and much nicer in my opinion. Concerning vignetting, I have limited experience with the cron, but so far I find them quite equal. Maybe "stupid me", but I find that different motives surprices me more with more or less vignetting than the choice of either of these lenses... get my meaning?

 

Short "summary": I love the Elmarit for its size, but DO NOT sell that cron!

 

Regards, Stein

[gjames9142]

I have the Cron and version 4 elmarit. They are both wonderful lenses. It would be interesting to see examples of bad vignettintg, something that is not a problem for me. There's always Corrnerfix. Let's see some pictures, the proof of the pudding.

[smkoush]

I was a long time user of the Elmarit ASPH (and still a big fun of it) but 4 months ago replaced it with the Summicron.

 

In summary, the Summicron has a different rendering (which I prefer), especially up to f4-5.6. Very similar to the 50mm Summilux ASPH at large apertures, while the Elmarit is very "clinical" as others said, perhaps more contrasty as well.

 

Both very sharp, the Summicron perhaps slightly sharper on the edges at large apertures.

 

Regarding size, the little Elmarit wins, no question about that.

[MarkP]

If you search the Forum you will find numerous threads on exactly this topic.

 

I originally bought the 2.8/28 Elmarit ASPH but nine months later had the opportunity to replace it with a 2.0/28 Summicron ASPH. I have had no regrets whatsoever. Furthermore, having f2.0 is very useful.

 

The Summicron is an extraordinary lens. I never cease to be amazed by the photographs that this lens produces.

 

If you really have need for a more compact 28 then get the Elmarit as well but as posted above:

DO NOT sell that Cron .

[colint544]

The 28mm Summicron has a gorgeous 'rounded', sort of 3D rendering, but at the same time, the details are crisp and sharp. Hard to explain, but here's a night shot I took using my M Monochrom, with the 28mm Summicron, wide open at f2, (1600 ISO).

 

Best wishes all,

 

Colin

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[Peter H]

Judging by the condition of that tree, autumn hits hard in Glasgow!

 

A fine photo, and I agree with your comments Colin.

[algrove]

Colin

That is a most interesting brick wall shot.

[MarkP]

 

In summary, the Summicron has a different rendering (which I prefer), especially up to f4-5.6. Very similar to the 50mm Summilux ASPH at large apertures, while the Elmarit is very "clinical" as others said, perhaps more contrasty as well.

 

 

I agree. I find that these two lenses pair very nicely and are my most used.

 

I love my 2.0/28 Summicron:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/landscape-travel/307926-ulladulla-breakkwater.html

(the mild vignetting of the first was intentional and added in PP)

[ananda]

I was in S Africa recently with my M and a 28 Elmarit ASPH. The landscape photos came out beautifully and if I had said they were taken with the Summicron, no one would have known they were not.

[jip]

I've tried both, I found the summicron's DOF interesting, but in the end bought the Elmarit-M 28mm ASPH. It's 'cheap' and sharp from corner to corner, and has virtually no distortion. Used it ALLOT on my M8/M8.2 now on the M240 sometimes!

[stephen.w]

If you need the extra stop, you need the extra stop, but I must say I can't see a significant difference in the way these lenses render from f2.8 onwards. Someone on the forum linked to a video interview with Rene Burri a month or two ago. He was sitting with his M9 on the table in front of him, with the Elmarit mounted on the camera -- the poor guy obviously didn't get the memo that his lens rendered 'clinically'

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[viramati]

I don't know about the elmarit but the cron is by far my favourite and most used lens on the M. There is just something about the images it produces that is very special. yes it vignettes but personally I rarely find that to be a problem. If I was doing architectural work I would probably be stopping the lens down anyway so vignetting would be less of a problem