Summicron collapsible 50mm f2 or Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f1.5 LTM ?

[Xexets]

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Hello!

I have recently received a Leica M3 with a 1959 Summicron collapsible 50mm f2. The lens has some dust in the middle elements, but no haze. The front element is badly scratched (clean marks mostly I guess). Bottom line: I lost several shots because of later light causing uncontrolled flare, and in general it is a very soft lens wide open.

Would it make sense to get a Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f1.5 LTM? I read (Steve Huff for example) that it is a great lens, budget-wise. I am afraid that budget is a concern for me.

Is the lens comparatively good (I mean, as compared to a scratched but definitely usable collapsible summicron)? Does anybody have an experience with both?

Plus: what would be a sensible price to pay for the Nokton? I see few on Ebay, and with very different price tags (I've seen some at 599£, other at 399£ buy it now and also auctions closing at £300).

 

Many thanks for the help!

[tobey bilek]

Scratches , AKA cleaning marks, cause flare and low contrast on lens that is already lowish contrast at wider stops.

 

evaluate your sample at 5.6 or stops you commonly use . Any new design will perform better.

 

A rigid, dual range, any 50 2.8 , version 3 from 1969/79 will outperform a collapsible assuming good condition which is hard to find. Most used stuff from common sources is junk. I avoid. George Ury, B&H, KEH will have good return policy if unsatisfied.

 

I am not a fan of CV lenses.

 

Consider a 50 2.0 Zeiss planar M

 

Dust in the middle means someone took it apart. Scratches means someone did not clean it properly. I would return it.

Used lenses need inspection with a pen light from one end, view thru the other, then reverse. They need to be perfectly clear.

[Xexets]

Thanks for the great tips. Being very new to the Leica world I really need it!

I hadn't considered the Zeiss planar, but indeed, it looks like a great lens. It is still a bit out of my budget, but I guess I could stretch it.

I am also very grateful for the opinion on the lens. I am an obsessive pixel peeper in digital, so I was not sure that the defects I could see in the lens were just me being picky or a possible real problem with the lens.

Thanks!

[Xexets]

BTW,... erm... I would return it, but it would be impolite,... it is my dad's...

[TomB_tx]

The collapsible Summicron can give very nice images, but as noted is low contrast, and front element damage (and many have etching on the rare-earth inner element). Mine has both conditions, but after cleaning by Youxin Ye I've been surprised at the nice images it can produce. (but I'm a fan of LTM era lenses)

I have two of the VC 50 1.5 Nokton LTM lenses, and for most use they perform better than my pre-asph Summilux 50. (But "better" depends on personal criteria.) However, you may find a used Zeiss Planar ZM at about the same price, as the Nokton prices have gone up in recent years. I also have the Planar (don't ask how may 50mm lenses I have...) and it is also very good. My Nokton 1.5s are about as sharp, but the Planar has nice "snap" and low flare. The Planar is also smaller.

I've bought about 8 Voigtlander lenses, and have only been disappointed in one (50 2.5 LTM). All have focused perfectly on my M9.

I've bought only two Zeiss lenses, and one had significant front-focus right out of the box. It was fixed by DAG, and has been great since. But as a result I think Voigtlander quality is pretty good compared to Zeiss.

[lct]

Beware of focus shift with the CV 50/1.5 and remember that the collapsible Summicron 50 was one of HCB's favorite lenses since the fiveties. Unless you shoot a lot at f/2 i would have your father's lens CLA'd if i were you.

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[james.liam]

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That old 50 without a panoply of scratches to that chalk-soft front element would be a miraculous find. The new CV M 50/1.5 (purportedly the same optics as the LTM but it focuses closer) will deliver something that is reminiscent of the pre-ASPH Summilux. Charming design, especially the chrome version. Unless someone can provide you with a new front element for the vintage 50, the CV is your better bet.

[TomB_tx]

I've checked both my CV50 f1.5 for focus shift, and it's no more than with my 50 Summicron lenses. The CV 50 f1.1 however is known for shift.

[jaques]

I have the Nokton 50 1.5 lens and can say without any doubt it is very good value for money. It is a quality lens- solidly made- and my example focuses perfectly. From what I understand it is not known to have the sample variation issues of some other CV lenses. I have tested it beside a chrome Summilux and it compares well. I think it will definitely preform better than your summicron... I say get it!

[jaques]

here is the first pic I took with mine:

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[Xexets]

Thanks for all the comments, most helpful!

Indeed, I would like very much the summicron collapsible, it is a solid lens, that can be easily slipped in a pocket and in good light conditions it produces great pics. Only those good light conditions are pretty restricted at the moment given the state of the lens.

 

Does anybody have a name for a good Leica lens repair centre in the UK? I think I will settle for a CV 1.5 (1999 version) while I have the summicron serviced.

And then, in due time, I'll start looking for a 35mm.

[alan c. davis]

here is the first pic I took with mine:

 

Jaques, an old Holden with a South Aussie number plate. Are you in Adelaide??

[farnz]

here is the first pic I took with mine:

Ah, the hot EK!

 

Pete.

[jaques]

yes- Adelaide:rolleyes: And yes- that EK sure is hot in cherry red- very nice paint job. At the time I took the photo I had an EJ (1963) and an EH (1965). But I couldn't deal with the rust and got rid of them both and grabbed a VC (1967)- much better panels on the Valiants- and after about 1967 cars started to look uglier and uglier- just like just about everything else. Still got the Val- this shot may also have been taken with the Nokton- I can't remember:

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[Xexets]

Thank you very much, great inputs! I will get a Nokton, and in the meantime try to service the collapsible. And then a 35mm... And then a Leica digital... The sky's the limit!

[Jean-Michel]

Hi,

You may want to check Jean Bajardi's (of Camtec, a very reputable leica dealer in Montreal, Canada) comments on the Nokton. https://rangefinder.camtecphoto.com/shop/?IDC=3&IDSC=16

Bajardi writes:

"If you know me, you know there isn't a 50mm lens I do not like. Unfortunately for Cosina, the Voigtlander Nokton 50mm F1.5 Aspherical is going up against an already crowded 50mm rangefinder field stacked with thoroughbreds including Leica's legendary Noctilux, Summilux and Summicron, Voitlander's superb speed demon Nokton F1.1, and Carl Zeiss' scintillating Planar, a lens renowned for its remarkable sharpness and very reasonable price.

 

For many years, the Leica-thread mount Nokton F1.5 had a reputation as a solid normal lens, especially when closed down a couple of stops. It performed capably and without breaking the budget. Cosina is about to discover whether we've moved beyond the stage where everything old can be made new again. Because of the demands of present-generation digital sensors, new rangefinder lenses should not merely be reengineered classics with their Leica-thread mounts replaced by M mounts.

 

The Voigtlander Nokton 50mm F1.5 Aspherical provides perfectly acceptable, if undistinguished results. What it lacks is the inspiration and ingenuity that have been hallmarks of the recent crop of Cosina lenses."

 

Jean-Michel

[sandro]

Can I throw in another suggestion? I am not sure if you need the 1.5 or 2 opening. If not, you might consider an collapsible Elmar 2.8/50mm, which is a marvellous lens, very sharp and with great contrats, for not so much money. For some more you can find the modern completely new and wonderful version, the Elmar-M 2.8/50mm.

Lex

[CaptZoom]

I don't think you'll need to do any "settling" by going for the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton (LTM) lens. It's a fantastic lens, and wide open it's as sharp as you want a lens to be (though there is some fringing which is very easily dealt with in post processing). The Zeiss 50mm f/2 Planar is another fantastic lens, and it really does have a unique signature. However apart from depth of field differences and bokeh aesthetics, the lens signatures (can) disappear with post processing allowing for your vision to peek through and shine. There is bi wrong decision between these two lenses. By the way, neither one of these lenses have had any focusing issues in regards to my M9.

I have no experience with the Leica 50mm you mention, and can not speak to its virtues. I will note that if cost is the issue, it would be prudent to get the Leica lens serviced and the remaining funds allocated for a different lens, a second battery, a thumbs up grip, memory cards, lights, etc.

 

 

 

Thanks for all the comments, most helpful!

Indeed, I would like very much the summicron collapsible, it is a solid lens, that can be easily slipped in a pocket and in good light conditions it produces great pics. Only those good light conditions are pretty restricted at the moment given the state of the lens.

 

Does anybody have a name for a good Leica lens repair centre in the UK? I think I will settle for a CV 1.5 (1999 version) while I have the summicron serviced.

And then, in due time, I'll start looking for a 35mm.

[Tegila]

Ok

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[Tegila]

I don't think you'll need to do any "settling" by going for the Voigtlander 50mm f/1.5 Nokton (LTM) lens. It's a fantastic lens, and wide open it's as sharp as you want a lens to be (though there is some fringing which is very easily dealt with in post processing). The Zeiss 50mm f/2 Planar is another fantastic lens, and it really does have a unique signature. However apart from depth of field differences and bokeh aesthetics, the lens signatures (can) disappear with post processing allowing for your vision to peek through and shine. There is bi wrong decision between these two lenses. By the way, neither one of these lenses have had any focusing issues in regards to my M9.

I have no experience with the Leica 50mm you mention, and can not speak to its virtues. I will note that if cost is the issue, it would be prudent to get the Leica lens serviced and the remaining funds allocated for a different lens, a second battery, a thumbs up grip, memory cards, lights, etc.

 

Lylyt