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hankg

Sign a petition for menu selectable lens profiles

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It could only ever be regarded as a defect if you bought the camera before the magenta problem/solution was disclosed. Once Leica had disclosed the solution - Leica filters, coded lenses, firmware, anyone buying the camera should have shown due diligence in understanding what they were buying and Leica is not culpable. It's a functional characteristic, not a defect.

The intention of Leica with the M8 was to produce a digital M. An M camera means M comtpatible. Why? because of the incredible universe of M lense, they knew the market would not accept a more digital friendly but M incompatible redesign. If they wanted a closed system they could have designed a much more digital friendly system. Making a closed M mount digital camera is the worst of both worlds. A mount that is digital unfriendly and not compatible with a large number (perhaps the majority) of the M mount lenses in use. What's the point of that?

 

You can call the IR limitation anything you want. Whatever you call it it's not a selling point. Allowing it to limit the camera's usefulness and create additional constraints and expense for customers will not be a net plus.

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Hank,

 

I believe you're mistaken. If someone were to sell 6-bit coded M-mount lenses (that specifically violated the patent), I believe that would be illegal. Individuals modifying adapters or lenses on their own (or for others for free) isn't violating patent, to the best of my understanding. Attorneys on the list can clarify this further.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

No patent violation whatsoever. In the US, it DOES NOT VOID warranty either (in most states). Sean is quite right, you can not sell your OEM 6-bit coded lenses, but you, as owner, can do any modification based on published or public knowledge. On the other side, a patent lawyer to argue the point with Leica can be much more expensive than the M8, Noctilux and whatever CV or Zeiss lenses you might have....

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Sign me up for it!

it can't be difficult to do as the camera must have a table that contains the lens details anyway for the exif data.

What I'd like to see is an extension of the process they use for the WATE, where if you switch the camera on, it prompts you to enter the focal length. It wouldn't be beyond the wit of man to include a bit of code that recognises whether a lens in uncoded and then offer a manual selection menu.

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The petition shouldn't be necessary but patience may be. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

the fog of leica self obsession clears and common sense prevails!??

 

that would be really good news!

I got fed up after the third attempt to self code my 28/2 didnt work....

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If they do introduce a (hopefully optional) manual lens selection menu, they will presumably allow selection of the different lenses of the same focal length already supported in the camera, instead of a simple "Generic 28mm" for example.

 

It will be interesting to see if they include lenses in the list which have always been coded, such as the WATE, 28/2.8 and the new Summarits. If the stated intention is to support uncoded but codeable Leica lenses, these would not need to be included. If it is to support uncoded codeable lenses, uncodeable legacy Leica lenses and competitor lenses, they might include these "always coded" lenses to provide additional matches to work with.

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Guest tummydoc

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The petition shouldn't be necessary but patience may be. <G>

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Is that a vague hint you know something you can't divulge

)

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it can't be difficult to do as the camera must have a table that contains the lens details anyway for the exif data.

It does; in fact the contents of this table are well known, as it is part of the firmware. But be careful what you wish for – the ability to choose a profile for an uncoded lens, i.e. identifying the lens as a certain Leica lens that’s in the table, or an option to just enter the focal length, so you can avoid cyan corners even with third-party lenses? Or both?

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If it is to support uncoded codeable lenses, uncodeable legacy Leica lenses and competitor lenses, they might include these "always coded" lenses to provide additional matches to work with.

 

Well the purpose was not to ask Leica to support competitor or uncoded lenses. Just to allow the user to manually select from the coded lenses in the firmware.

 

I have a 50/1.4 preASPH that is not coded. I don't want to be without the lens and I'm concerned that the lens calibration might get screwed up when Leica swaps mounts. As it's not a wide angle, coding is not a must, but it would be nice to be able to select the lens from a menu.

 

Of course if users choose to use the profiles of coded lenses for unsupported lenses they do so at their own risk. It gives users more options and more control.

 

This was hashed over at length a few months ago, the ball is now in Leica's court. I hope they see fit to implement this at some point.

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But be careful what you wish for – the ability to choose a profile for an uncoded lens, i.e. identifying the lens as a certain Leica lens that’s in the table, or an option to just enter the focal length, so you can avoid cyan corners even with third-party lenses? Or both?

 

So, is Leica seriously considering this now, Michael? If so, then I would suggest:

 

1. If they don't mind supporting third party lenses, then we should be able to punch in the focal length and max. aperture so the camera can match it to a suitable profile for use;

 

2. If Leica doesn't want to support third party lenses, that's even easier! Then we only need to punch in the serial number and Leica could let the M8 know what it is.

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But be careful what you wish for – the ability to choose a profile for an uncoded lens, i.e. identifying the lens as a certain Leica lens that’s in the table, or an option to just enter the focal length, so you can avoid cyan corners even with third-party lenses? Or both?

 

Actually, I forgot to mention this, Michael ... letting the users input serial numbers for lens recognition could also enable a lot of interesting things. For example ... the camera could display an alert on the LCD warning the potential damage that may cause to the camera when it finds a collapsible Elmar is mounted.

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I think Leica has higher priorities - to fix elements of the functionality we've bought which doesn't work to the expected standard - like AWB and JPEG rendering - instead of pandering to the whingers here who are too cheap to use current Leica lenses. With the upcoming Summarit lenses (and presumably more in the future), they have no more excuses.

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With the upcoming Summarit lenses (and presumably more in the future), they have no excuses.

 

Can't disagree with you, sir. So they should go route #2 (in lower priority)

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I think Leica has higher priorities - to fix elements of the functionality we've bought which doesn't work to the expected standard - like AWB and JPEG rendering - instead of pandering to the whingers here who are too cheap to use current Leica lenses. With the upcoming Summarit lenses (and presumably more in the future), they have no more excuses.

 

Mark that is really offensive. It might be beyond your understanding but some photographers may not want to part with their Leica lenses for coding or will choose to use a wide variety of optics for all kinds of reasons besides being 'cheap'. On the other hand there are some photo journalists / documentary photographers and student/young photographers who make their living from their art and their photos or who are struggling to make a living from their photos who can't afford all the latest that well healed hobbyists can. Leica should do everything it can to make room for these sorts as their work will do more to enhance the brand then a truck full of snapshots shot with the latest gear by well to do gear heads.

 

It's sad that some seem to think that Leica should be some sort of exclusive club where the rif raf are kept at bay. Trouble is the rif raf produce the most interesting work:).

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Guest guy_mancuso

IF leica does this they will be doing it for Leica lenses only and not Zeiss or CV lenses.They don't own Zeiss and CV lens companies and there not going to be responsible in any way shape or form. So if you want to cheat and use a 24mm code on your Zeiss 25mm than your on you own and if it don't work than obviously it will be your headache. Leica won't support them and i would not expect them too either. Let's also remember this, not everyone that wants it to be on there camera's. If it comes it just maybe a option, there's something to chew on.

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Leica should do everything it can to make room for these sorts as their work will do more to enhance the brand then a truck full of snapshots shot with the latest gear by well to do gear heads.

 

Maybe Zeiss should be catering for these people?

 

Students and young photographers struggling to make a living don't use Leicas.

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Guest tummydoc
I think Leica has higher priorities - to fix elements of the functionality we've bought which doesn't work to the expected standard - like AWB and JPEG rendering

 

True. But whilst that takes skill and experience with digital imaging, the lens menu list simply takes someone with knowledge of code, as the data are already in the firmware.

 

- instead of pandering to the whingers here who are too cheap to use current Leica lenses. With the upcoming Summarit lenses (and presumably more in the future), they have no more excuses.

 

Yes, I'm too "cheap" to relegate my 35/1.4-ASPHERICAL and 1st-version 28/2.8 and 35/2 and several other collectors' items to the has-been shelf simply because Leica has chosen to exclude them from codability. The only reason I paid $5000 for an M8 and continue to suffer its quirks and glitches is to have a digital body on which to use my entire collection of optics, as promised. In point of fact your assertion is as foolish as it is condescending, for it's a simple matter to self-code older lenses: unless of course they happen to be high-value collectors' items which one would be insane to have their flanges drilled out for coding.

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Students and young photographers struggling to make a living don't use Leicas.

 

I know a lot of Photo Journalists who have been to Iraq, the West Bank, Haiti and every other hot spot in the world. Their work regularly appears in major publications like Stern and Time and they are barely making a living. Welcome to the world of globalized corporate media and rights-grabbing contracts.

 

This feature is not that big a deal in the end. Not many people are going to make a buying decision based on it and if Leica does it users with coded lenses won't even know it's there as they will just set UV/IR recognition on and forget it (although it may irk some that Leica is giving the unwashed masses a free ride). To me it behooves Leica to put the photographer in control and give him as much flexibility as possible.

 

And Guy no one expects Leica to support or take responsibility for third party lenses or what ever users choose to do with their cameras that is not recommended and officially supported by Leica.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Hank i'm all for it , i would just not expect a free lunch here. if they do it, it really is for there base customers like Vinay that is sitting on a large amount of collector items and for lenses that simply can't be coded because of lens mount issues

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