Is it better to master one focal length with a rangefinder before using other lenses?

[Ralf]

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Undoubtedly #3, stop worrying and start to have fun!

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[spydrxx]

Since you have the lenses, use them. If you were just starting out, my advice would be to spend 6 mo - 1 year with a lens to both understand your unmet needs, and the characteristics of the lens you have. It is sort of like a novice buying a piano and attempting to learn to play a whole a Beethoven sonata before developing the facility, and hand strength, and the ear for the subtle nuances of "Fur Elise". I spent 2 years with my first Leica lens before purchasing a different focal length (I was fortunate in having a friend coach me and occasionally lend me other focal lengths to try out).

[Jeff S]

There are situations where I would not feel comfortable carrying expensive Leica lenses. I decided instead to use the APS-C Ricoh GR with a 28/2.8 equivalent lens and Leica M with Voigtländer 50/1.5. The 50/2 is about as sharp as you can get throughout the frame. The APO has exceptional color and contrast...

 

Well, you hadn't mentioned that your 50 Summicron was the APO. If you're already comfortable with a $7000 camera, what's the worry about adding a $7000 lens? No thief is going to distinguish a standard Summicron from the APO anyway, let alone an M versus an M8.

 

This reinforces my earlier point to spend more time thinking about pics and less about lenses and cameras.

 

One other point...buy insurance and eliminate any worry.

 

Jeff

[KanzaKruzer]

Well, you hadn't mentioned that your 50 Summicron was the APO. If you're already comfortable with a $7000 camera, what's the worry about adding a $7000 lens? No thief is going to distinguish a standard Summicron from the APO anyway, let alone an M versus an M8.

 

This reinforces my earlier point to spend more time thinking about pics and less about lenses and cameras.

 

One other point...buy insurance and eliminate any worry.

 

Jeff

 

Part of my concern is taking the APO out in unfriendly conditions and having it scratched from blowing sand, water damage, dents, drops, etc. A $1,000 lens is a lot less than a $7,000 lens and is more easily replaced. Given availability of the APO, I question I could easily obtain another irrespective of insurance etc.. Leica M bodies will eventually be easy to replace.

 

My initial post was searching for the fastest way to hit the ground running when I eventually receive my M given my lack of rangefinder experience and trying to identify any unique issues related to rangefinders. I have a pretty good handle on SLR/DSLR focal lengths and large format focal lengths as well as how a lens draws, etc..

[Jeff S]

My initial post was searching for the fastest way to hit the ground running when I eventually receive my M given my lack of rangefinder experience

 

Read the FAQ and take a lot of pics. Seriously.

 

Regarding the rest, I haven't ruined a lens or camera in 40 years. But I've also never worried about it, with prudent care, especially with insurance. You worry enough for both of us...and you're the one apparently without insurance. And this is because you couldn't get a replacement quick enough? Yet you're perfectly willing to replace your gear with a moderately priced lens and camera when needed.

 

I love these forums.

 

Jeff

[IWC Doppel]

The only people who will know the difference between a 50 Summicron, a 50 Summicorn APO and your Voigtlander won't be stealing it.

 

Whilst the loss will be greater the likelihood is the same

 

I take my M9-P everywhere with me, it's in he same bag as my wallet and phone. I often walk around London with it in hand (Still with the 18 today). The only people who know what it is, I doubt would steal.

 

I see more Rolex's than Leica's. Sure people steal bags and rob but it's thankfully not the norm in most environments

[IkarusJohn]

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Read the FAQ and take a lot of pics. Seriously.

 

Regarding the rest, I haven't ruined a lens or camera in 40 years. But I've also never worried about it, with prudent care, especially with insurance. You worry enough for both of us...and you're the one apparently without insurance. And this is because you couldn't get a replacement quick enough? Yet you're perfectly willing to replace your gear with a moderately priced lens and camera when needed.

 

I love these forums.

 

Jeff

 

What he said

[CaptZoom]

When I migrated to the M9 over from dSLRs, I did what the OP has done. I bought all the focal lengths I use (28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm, 90mm). Like the OP, I thought I would use one lens for a bit until I got a handle of and some feel for the camera. That took about 15 minutes (I learned shooting on a Russian Leica clone- amazing how old skills are retained). I still thought I'd use a 50mm. After I saw the images I was getting, I couldn't help shoot with all the lenses almost all of the time. It literally felt the system was designed specifically for me!?! Though I still use all of the lenses professionally (some more than others), I've settled into using one of my 50mm lenses for personal use.

 

My suggestion to the OP, use all of your lenses. You'll likely not be able to help yourself from doing so any way. As time goes by, you'll settle on which focal length(s) you like to use most often and for which situations. Once you get comfortable, it'll be time to stretch you comfort zone and acquire new skills with different focal lengths. In my case, I'm going to start focusing on wide angle use.

[KanzaKruzer]

When I migrated to the M9 over from dSLRs, I did what the OP has done. I bought all the focal lengths I use (28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm, 90mm). Like the OP, I thought I would use one lens for a bit until I got a handle of and some feel for the camera. That took about 15 minutes (I learned shooting on a Russian Leica clone- amazing how old skills are retained). I still thought I'd use a 50mm. After I saw the images I was getting, I couldn't help shoot with all the lenses almost all of the time. It literally felt the system was designed specifically for me!?! Though I still use all of the lenses professionally (some more than others), I've settled into using one of my 50mm lenses for personal use.

 

My suggestion to the OP, use all of your lenses. You'll likely not be able to help yourself from doing so any way. As time goes by, you'll settle on which focal length(s) you like to use most often and for which situations. Once you get comfortable, it'll be time to stretch you comfort zone and acquire new skills with different focal lengths. In my case, I'm going to start focusing on wide angle use.

Thanks for the insight. I’ve read the FAQ section and plan to take a lot of photos. I have not ruined a camera or lens in 38 years when I started to develop my own film, but have been prudent on which equipment to use in a given situation. I do carry insurance, but recognize it would be a major pain to replace the APO. I am not obsessing about what might happen, but why borrow trouble when the odds are out of favor, i.e. use a Ricoh GR while fly fishing in case I take a spill. I plan to use the APO frequently, if not most of the time, but would feel more comfortable using the second string (Nokton) in some situations. Plus I like to experiment with different lenses. When or if I plan to use a given lens, was not the original intent of my question. I was curious if using all my lenses at the start would delay the initial learning curve. I know I had some experience using a split screen camera, but can’t remember if it was my dad’s Leica IIIc or some other camera in the 70’s.

 

It appears there may not be any issues unique to the rangefinder learning curve related to one or more lenses at the start. I’ll probably start using all my lenses, but the 35mm and 50mm focal lengths will occupy 80% of my usage from the get go as I mentioned in the original post.

[CaptZoom]

One of the big differences between dSLRs and RF is learning to be extremely careful when focus and composing with the lenses set to wide apertures. Unlike the spread of focus points on dSLRs, with the M you get the center point/box only. You already know this, but initially it's easy to forget.

 

I thinks as long as you're managing your expectations, you'll be delighted with the M system. On the rare occasions I handle a FF dSLR now days, I can't imagine who I managed to lug a leviathan with me every where I went.

 

Speaking to going places, I have my M9 with me most of the time (from the mundane to motorcycle trips to the ocean, and every where in between). I use a nondescript (as fars as camera bags are concerned) Domke to transport my camera and lens. Once I'm on location the Domke stays in the car, and the camera with me. I do not use a camera case. I decided long ago that the cost was too high not to use my gear. That being said, you gotta have a system. And you have to be alert (you should be alert any way so as not miss that perfect moment, frame). When I'm in a rough neighborhood, I'm much more concerned with my safety than theft. Pissed off the wrong guy by taking his photo in the wrong neighborhood, and there's a very real chance of getting hurt/shot. We all have our thresholds for a variety of things and situations. What works for me or whomever, may not be the right fit for you. Take whatever precautions you want to take, so that you can enjoy your new gear. I wanted to share my experience and habits, that's all; nothing else or no judgement intended.

[KanzaKruzer]

One of the big differences between dSLRs and RF is learning to be extremely careful when focus and composing with the lenses set to wide apertures. Unlike the spread of focus points on dSLRs, with the M you get the center point/box only. You already know this, but initially it's easy to forget.

 

I thinks as long as you're managing your expectations, you'll be delighted with the M system. On the rare occasions I handle a FF dSLR now days, I can't imagine who I managed to lug a leviathan with me every where I went.

 

Speaking to going places, I have my M9 with me most of the time (from the mundane to motorcycle trips to the ocean, and every where in between). I use a nondescript (as fars as camera bags are concerned) Domke to transport my camera and lens. Once I'm on location the Domke stays in the car, and the camera with me. I do not use a camera case. I decided long ago that the cost was too high not to use my gear. That being said, you gotta have a system. And you have to be alert (you should be alert any way so as not miss that perfect moment, frame). When I'm in a rough neighborhood, I'm much more concerned with my safety than theft. Pissed off the wrong guy by taking his photo in the wrong neighborhood, and there's a very real chance of getting hurt/shot. We all have our thresholds for a variety of things and situations. What works for me or whomever, may not be the right fit for you. Take whatever precautions you want to take, so that you can enjoy your new gear. I wanted to share my experience and habits, that's all; nothing else or no judgement intended.

I’ll watch the focus issues at wide aperture, but it should be similar to what I experienced with manual focus Zeiss lenses. I had a KatzEye split screen added to my D700 and had to focus in the middle and then recompose.

 

My reference to hesitancy taking expensive lenses in some situations had more to do with risk of damage rather than theft. I have pretty good street sense and have never been in situations where I felt threatened. Also at 6’5” and 235 lbs., I am not the easiest mark. I have a couple Crumpler Haven inserts which work well inside any number of non-descript bags including a bike frame bag, sling bag with water bottle holder on the outside, messenger bag, etc. I plan to carry the M on a half case with strap, under a jacket and slip it in the bag when I am not anticipating shots. It will be a lot better than carrying a 4lb. brick (D800E, with 24-120/4) like I did for two weeks in Italy earlier this summer.

[CaptZoom]

I’ll watch the focus issues at wide aperture, but it should be similar to what I experienced with manual focus Zeiss lenses. I had a KatzEye split screen added to my D700 and had to focus in the middle and then recompose.

I moved over from 5DMK2 land where there were no split image focusing screens available. At least none that I could find. It's funny that my hit rate (as far is focusing is concerned) is much higher with the RF than it ever was with the dSLR. I tried every frakking technique I could learn, but never got along (or warmed up to AF).

 

My reference to hesitancy taking expensive lenses in some situations had more to do with risk of damage rather than theft. I have pretty good street sense and have never been in situations where I felt threatened. Also at 6’5” and 235 lbs., I am not the easiest mark. I have a couple Crumpler Haven inserts which work well inside any number of non-descript bags including a bike frame bag, sling bag with water bottle holder on the outside, messenger bag, etc. I plan to carry the M on a half case with strap, under a jacket and slip it in the bag when I am not anticipating shots. It will be a lot better than carrying a 4lb. brick (D800E, with 24-120/4) like I did for two weeks in Italy earlier this summer.

 

I've wanting to try the Crumpler inserts. I've a few bags made by them (none are camera bags). I'm very happy with them. I think I'll get bored of them long before they wear out.

 

Your worry about damage is understandable. Like I said, different thresholds for each of us.

I use a sling type strap and keep one hand on the camera holding it close to my body. This keeps the camera from moving around hitting things/people (especially in crowded areas). Plus it has the benefit of always being ready to pull the camera up to shoot. During adverse weather or situations, I can easily wear a jacket over the strap without it interfering too much with functionality.

 

PS. When you finally get your M and if you find many focusing errors, get the RF checked at at the local shop for alignment. Nothing like beating yourself over the inability to focus correctly only to find out you were not doing anything wrong.

[thompsonkirk]

My two cents, though it's not likely to be what you want to hear:

 

IMO you got off on the wrong track by buying the 21 and 90 lenses because they seemed scarce, and now you're in danger of making your RF kit as clumsy as your DSLR. If I followed the thread accurately and you also have a D800E with a zoom lens, then you already have great focal-length flexibility. Leicas need an external finder for 21, and the VF image is too small with a 90 – or you have to stop and screw in a magnifier. The D800 w/ zoom or primes is a better choice at wide or long focal lengths; with a RF and a DSLR backup, the most useful lenses are 28-35-50 (but don't start with all three at once).

 

In your position I'd re-sell the Leica 21 and 90 and follow the one-lens route (w/DSLR backup) to get started. If you don't already know what your most-favored focal length will be, then start with 35mm, because it lets you begin by using the optimal area of the viewfinder.

 

If you've been waiting a year, you might even own an M before you have another birthday. In the meantime, try a used M9 – they're about $4K now, and unless a flood of Ms appear, they can be resold in the near future without much loss. Also M9 color, at least until Leica comes out with a firmware update, is more beautiful than M color. And get a 35mm Summicron. Then by the time your M is born, you'll know what other lens(es) you'd really need.

 

If you want a less expensive lens for hi-risk situations – around sand, rocks, thugs, and children – buy an older Leica lens, from the era when they were designed by Walter Mandler (google). You might end up preferring it anyway.

[KanzaKruzer]

IMO you got off on the wrong track by buying the 21 and 90 lenses because they seemed scarce, and now you're in danger of making your RF kit as clumsy as your DSLR. If I followed the thread accurately and you also have a D800E with a zoom lens, then you already have great focal-length flexibility. Leicas need an external finder for 21, and the VF image is too small with a 90 – or you have to stop and screw in a magnifier. The D800 w/ zoom or primes is a better choice at wide or long focal lengths; with a RF and a DSLR backup, the most useful lenses are 28-35-50 (but don't start with all three at once).

 

In your position I'd re-sell the Leica 21 and 90 and follow the one-lens route (w/DSLR backup) to get started. If you don't already know what your most-favored focal length will be, then start with 35mm, because it lets you begin by using the optimal area of the viewfinder.

I already bought the Olympus VF2 which works on the M and should allow for proper focus and view for both the 21 and 90. The 21 and 90 will be used 20% of the time at most, but I would like to have that option when needed. I don't ever plan to carry the D800E with the M and will only use it when I need autofocus or speedlights.

[Jeff S]

And get a 35mm Summicron.

 

I guess you missed that, in addition to the 21 and 90, he already bought the 35 Summilux FLE, as well as the 50 APO Summicron. Camera and 4 lenses totaling over $26,000, at retail. Without ever having used an M. Hope he likes it.

 

Jeff

[Gibbo]

This could go horribly wrong

[CaptZoom]

Kanza,

The 90mm isn't as difficult to focus as reading forums suggest. It just isn't as simple as it is with wider focal lengths. Composition gets tricking with a 90mm, simple because the area allocated for the 90mm is so small. The 135mm on the other hand...I don't know how people manage that with the RF without some mods (ie magnification increases, etc)! But they do. There are plenty of excellent images taken with 135mms. Coming from dSLR land, with the habit of using telephoto primes (85mm, 135mm, 200mm) it was quite the experience.

 

Good luck with the EVF. Hopefully Leica will have updated the FW so all users of the M experience fewer hiccups with the EVF. I think it add a lot of much need flexibility and functionality to the system.

[CaptZoom]

I guess you missed that, in addition to the 21 and 90, he already bought the 35 Summilux FLE, as well as the 50 APO Summicron. Camera and 4 lenses totaling over $26,000, at retail. Without ever having used an M. Hope he likes it.

 

Jeff

 

I did some thing similar when I migrated over to the M system. I haven't regretted it at all. Though I the first lenses I bought were work related, which means performance at f/5.6-f/8 took precedence over f/1.4 (since the bulk of what I'm to do happens at those apertures). Once the system started generating revenue, I started (still am) moving up the lens ladder to the holy grail: I'll own a Noctilux some day (but not before I can justify the purchase with a skill set to match- it's a personal motivator to keep enhancing my skills).

I don't think spending money on highly regarded Leica lenses is a bad move. Should he decides to leave the system, I think he'll suffer the least loses with the lenses.

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[Jeff S]

I don't think spending money on highly regarded Leica lenses is a bad move. Should he decides to leave the system, I think he'll suffer the least loses with the lenses.

 

Photography has nothing to do with my investment strategy. It's not about cost or cost recovery for me; it's about acquiring the right tools for the purpose.

 

For me, that took time photographing before pulling out my wallet at once. But that's just me. No right or wrong.

 

Jeff

[CaptZoom]

Photography has nothing to do with my investment strategy. It's not about cost or cost recovery for me; it's about acquiring the right tools for the purpose.

 

For me, that took time photographing before pulling out my wallet at once. But that's just me. No right or wrong.

 

Jeff

 

I agree with you, and when changing systems I think it's prudent to be aware of possible financial ramifications.

 

Couple of personal notes:

1) I make a living through photography; not a of money (I earn a few magnitudes more if I go back to my previous career). I have to make very real sacrifices in order to finance the Leica system, as such the wallet is always a consideration. We're all different with different needs, wants, means, etc; like you said, "No right or wrong". [Note- I'm agreeing with you, and not trying to antagonize you.]

2) I switched over to Leica for the ergonomics; they alone are worth the cost of entry (for me).