wlaidlaw Posted March 3, 2014 Share #861 Posted March 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica does have a PR department. I cannot remember his name but I have his card down at my French house. He could knock any of the Leica apologists on this forum into a cocked hat:D I hear what people are saying about the 50APO but it is all very subjective. I am very fond of my 40 Summicron-C and love the way it renders both on my M9 and M240 but technically it is not very good (the MTF’s are hopeless on it). I had a 50 ASPH Summilux which I am sure was technically very good but even allowing for it being one of those that was very prone to purple fringing, I really disliked the way it rendered. That is what I like about the 0.95 Noctilux, that I know it has very good figures and it renders (in my eyes anyway) beautifully. I strongly disagree with the view that it is a one trick pony, like I freely admit my old F1.0 Noctilux was, with horrible aperture shift plus coma. The 0.95 performs very well at smaller apertures, a bit like a slightly less harsh ASPH 50 Summilux. If only it was a bit lighter! I think rejoining Reid Reviews and reading his comparison of the 2 50 Summicrons is my only answer. In any case with the purchase of both a Noctilux and 18SEM in the last few months, my camera budget is already hugely overspent for the year, so an APO 50 is not on the horizon anyway. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 3, 2014 Posted March 3, 2014 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here APO Summicron 50/2 ASPH: Central veiling flare / fogging. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted March 3, 2014 Share #862 Posted March 3, 2014 Wilson Order it since you probably can put its expense against 2015. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 3, 2014 Share #863 Posted March 3, 2014 M first was 215xxxx (loved it), the second 416xxxx (still love it) and the new one 423xxxx. My first two have behaved just fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted March 3, 2014 Share #864 Posted March 3, 2014 I am still interested to know what the 50 APO owners feel they get from of its images, that they would not have got from one of its cheaper competitors, the older Summicron, the ASPH Summilux or even the 50ZM Planar. I would like to seem some crops of images taken with the 50 APO and one of its competitors pointing out the differences. Usually when Leica replaces a lens, it is a case of “oh don’t pictures taken with the old lens look quaint/soft/ancient etc.” However in this case, the competitors are so good even on the current M240, I wonder if the differences are like the stratospheric HiFi system going up to 100K Hz, for the benefit of any passing bat. I am not doubting that the lens can produce wonderful images, it is just that I have not seen any hard evidence to date but I am very willing to be convinced. In theory its apochromaticity should produce considerably sharper images but are they visible with the naked eye or even with pixel peeping? Wilson Did you find that test? I might have posted it on getDPI, can't remember. I used the Noctilux 0.95 and f1.0, the new Summilux 1.4, the MATE, the current 50/2.0, the APO50, the V.II pre-ASPH 50/1.4, the 50/2.0 V.II, and the 40/2.0. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica5 Posted March 4, 2014 Share #865 Posted March 4, 2014 I have one with SN 415xxx , with 2 shiny rings are visible inside;I have not noticed any dicernable CVF over 1 year.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 4, 2014 Share #866 Posted March 4, 2014 WilsonOrder it since you probably can put its expense against 2015. Lou, I have to sell some articles from my India trip first to make some income to offset against. Airlines are cutting back and recycling old articles in their magazines rather than buying new ones. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 4, 2014 Share #867 Posted March 4, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Did you find that test? I might have posted it on getDPI, can't remember. I used the Noctilux 0.95 and f1.0, the new Summilux 1.4, the MATE, the current 50/2.0, the APO50, the V.II pre-ASPH 50/1.4, the 50/2.0 V.II, and the 40/2.0. Lou, I have been busy the last few days, sorting and fixing the 1500 approx pictures I took in India but I will look in GetDPI. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted March 4, 2014 Share #868 Posted March 4, 2014 Leica does have a PR department. I cannot remember his name but I have his card down at my French house. He could knock any of the Leica apologists on this forum into a cocked hat:D I hear what people are saying about the 50APO but it is all very subjective. I am very fond of my 40 Summicron-C and love the way it renders both on my M9 and M240 but technically it is not very good (the MTF’s are hopeless on it). I had a 50 ASPH Summilux which I am sure was technically very good but even allowing for it being one of those that was very prone to purple fringing, I really disliked the way it rendered. That is what I like about the 0.95 Noctilux, that I know it has very good figures and it renders (in my eyes anyway) beautifully. I strongly disagree with the view that it is a one trick pony, like I freely admit my old F1.0 Noctilux was, with horrible aperture shift plus coma. The 0.95 performs very well at smaller apertures, a bit like a slightly less harsh ASPH 50 Summilux. If only it was a bit lighter! I think rejoining Reid Reviews and reading his comparison of the 2 50 Summicrons is my only answer. In any case with the purchase of both a Noctilux and 18SEM in the last few months, my camera budget is already hugely overspent for the year, so an APO 50 is not on the horizon anyway. Wilson One trick pony in the sense that you only ever see people using it wide open, and don't get me wrong, it's fantastic stopped down (I frequently use it at f/2+), but then why carry the size weight? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted March 4, 2014 Share #869 Posted March 4, 2014 -> does this mean you don't find the corner sharpness to be good? -> you've got one confirmed reader now. How many more confirmations till you're willing to write your thoughts down? No no, the corner sharpness is great. I'm off on a work/play trip tomorrow.. I'll be bringing the Leica to shoot work (scary thought), but I'm gonna probably have quite a bit of free time for reflection in between jobs, so I may just write it out anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted March 4, 2014 Share #870 Posted March 4, 2014 - This is precisely where I'm at now. I want to buy the APO 50 cron but I'm not willing to go through the pain of a "Solmser Alptraum" till the lens does what it should, for which I bought it. Do any of you APO 50 cron owners have both the M240 and the A7r? If yes, which sensor brings out the best from the lens? Assuming there are no issues of smearing/colored edges etc. I do, and the M240 seems to do better with every lens I've tried (although I like using the A7 and the 50Summilux for some reason, I guess the way the MF works on the A7 allows me to avoid the issues I have with the 50lux and it's strange not flat focus plane). I think there's a slight problem with the reflectivity of the sensor on the A7 though, so that might be to blame for me not liking lenses on it as much (maybe I just don't like the sensor?).. I'm actually starting to think there's also an ever so slight problem with the M240, as the M9 seems to have less of an issue with the 28summicron (although it might be the increased DR that's throwing off my judgement).. I went out and bought a whole ton of calibration tools, so I could figure out a few issues I have with all my cameras once and for all.. I'm in the process (planning part) of streamlining my gear to a "play" system and a "work" system. And I feel those systems should be able to cross into either territory. So a lot of stuff has to be sold off when I get back from my trip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted March 4, 2014 Share #871 Posted March 4, 2014 It does bug me, yes. This whole APO saga, apogate, is baffling and a PR disaster. If you can actually get the product you want, it's anyones guess if it will actually work. Yet here I am, somehow, hoping to find out more about a lens that I really really want. One that is a £5K lucky dip. 99% of the people I talk to who go "WOW you have an APO 50, man you're lucky" have no idea about the problems associated with it (and these are hard core Leica fans, they can spot a 50APO which is something, considering most people who recognize the camera, think it's film). So I don't think it's that big a deal to Leica, as the only people right now who are hurting over this issue are the APO owners, and the few people wanted to buy one who can't, and have resorted to seeking advice/answers on the forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted March 4, 2014 Share #872 Posted March 4, 2014 Hmmmm just moving from one town to another won't fix the issues. What was the root cause? - Assuming it is/was an assembly problem and not in individual components, are they investing in upskilling their workforce? - Assuming it is/was an issue with components, do they source from a new supplier or even from the same supplier but with better compliance to specs? - Assuming it is/was an internal mechanical issue, did they fix their machines or buy/manufacture better ones? I'm 99% positive it's coatings in most cases, and perhaps slightly the ability to shape the glass right, and slightly assembly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGodParticle/Hari Posted March 4, 2014 Share #873 Posted March 4, 2014 I do, and the M240 seems to do better with every lens I've tried (although I like using the A7 and the 50Summilux for some reason, I guess the way the MF works on the A7 allows me to avoid the issues I have with the 50lux and it's strange not flat focus plane). I think there's a slight problem with the reflectivity of the sensor on the A7 though, so that might be to blame for me not liking lenses on it as much (maybe I just don't like the sensor?).. I'm actually starting to think there's also an ever so slight problem with the M240, as the M9 seems to have less of an issue with the 28summicron (although it might be the increased DR that's throwing off my judgement).. I went out and bought a whole ton of calibration tools, so I could figure out a few issues I have with all my cameras once and for all.. I'm in the process (planning part) of streamlining my gear to a "play" system and a "work" system. And I feel those systems should be able to cross into either territory. So a lot of stuff has to be sold off when I get back from my trip. Excellent. I like pragmatism. If you have the APO50 cron and it ends up on your FS list, do let me know. Might as well try a used copy for the moment and buy a new one when "the problems get fixed" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted March 4, 2014 Share #874 Posted March 4, 2014 Did you find that test? I might have posted it on getDPI, can't remember. I used the Noctilux 0.95 and f1.0, the new Summilux 1.4, the MATE, the current 50/2.0, the APO50, the V.II pre-ASPH 50/1.4, the 50/2.0 V.II, and the 40/2.0. I haven't seen the TEST! Wlaidlaw - It definitely produces a different kind of sharp image (cleaner better). The Noct 0.95 @ f/2 does a different kind of sharpness. Same with the 50Lux-asph @ f/2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dewilde Posted March 4, 2014 Share #875 Posted March 4, 2014 Excellent. I like pragmatism. If you have the APO50 cron and it ends up on your FS list, do let me know. Might as well try a used copy for the moment and buy a new one when "the problems get fixed" I'm not selling any current production Leica gear.. The 50APO is better then most now, just not where I think it should be.. I'd keep it at "better then most" and I'm going to work with Leica in the future to get it to "where I think it should be" My advice, don't be so hasty to buy a 50APO, instead work with the lenses you have for a while.. Better to not have the aggravation or performance-doubt over a $$ lens. It's just once you get one, I doubt you'll want to sell it.. And will end up putting up with the quirks because you'll see a benefit in doing so. Anyway I'm off to the land of golden hour tomorrow morning, so I'm sure I'll have a lot more to say once I'm out of my area and it's flat dull light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pajamies Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share #876 Posted March 4, 2014 My Summicron M 50/2 AA, a picture of which is in the first posting of this thread, was repaired Aug - Nov 2013 at Solms, is number 420xxxx. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 4, 2014 Share #877 Posted March 4, 2014 One trick pony in the sense that you only ever see people using it wide open, and don't get me wrong, it's fantastic stopped down (I frequently use it at f/2+), but then why carry the size weight? I am carrying the Nocti anyway for low light or with a -3EV Polaroid filter for shallow DOF shots, so it might as well be on the Camera. When travelling, I would tend to carry my 40 Summicron C or 28 ASPH Summicron rather than my ZM 50 Planar due to size and weight, given that I am already lugging a Noctilux around. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted March 6, 2014 Share #878 Posted March 6, 2014 ... in particular, I'd like to test against an even brighter sun and also at a greater variety of focus distances. Over the last couple of days, the sun always went away whenever I had a few minutes to spare ... so no more testing until now. Today, I fired a few frames against a bright sun at focus distances of infinity, 1.2 m, and 0.7 m, and at apertures f/8 and f/16. Again: no central veiling flare spots whatsoever. You can get the lens to flare if you're trying hard enough ... but then it'll be regular (and mild) veiling flare across the frame, not those dreaded central flare spots. Overall, I now consider this lens basically as flare-resistant as the wonderful Summarit-M 35 mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
helged Posted March 7, 2014 Share #879 Posted March 7, 2014 Thanks O1af! Do you have experience with the early (somewhat troubled) incarnation of the lens? If so, any comments regarding differences between the two versions of the lens except for flaring? For users of the modified version of the lens: Any flaring issues? I ask since it would be good to know the results from more copies of the new version of the lens since the first version ranged from horrible to quite good regarding flare resistance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pajamies Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share #880 Posted March 7, 2014 Here is a picture of the rising sun taken with the Summicron M 50/2 AA on Leica M last weekend. F 2. The picture is cropped, and tweaked on LR 5 - but some flare, no fogging. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/208297-apo-summicron-502-asph-central-veiling-flare-fogging/?do=findComment&comment=2545152'>More sharing options...
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