IkarusJohn Posted July 3, 2013 Share #1 Posted July 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Pondering where to next with my photography, and I was looking at what lenses Leica makes. There are the two X lenses (35 and 28-70 zoom), but they don't count. The current offerings are: M lenses WATE 18 21 x2 24 x2 28 x2 35 x3 50 x5 75 x2 90 x3 (one macro) 135 S lenses All AF 30-90 zoom 24 30 35 70 120 x2 (one macro) 180 It's a rather odd catalogue if you consider the mainstream appeal does tend to include long, zooms and macros. Look then at what Leica gave up with the R system: R lenses as at 2009 15 19 24 28 x2 35 x2 50 x2 60 macro 80 90 100 180 x2 280 280-800 modular 21-35 28-70 28-90 35-70 70-180 80-200 105-280 Incredible to think that 26 lens offerings (some of them truly fantastic lenses, according to the reference books) were suddenly discontinued, leaving Leica with only one zoom lens (for the S system) and 135 their longest tele. Why ask this now? That all happened back in 2009. Well, largely because with the M (typ 240), the limitations which restricted the M lenses to the mid range of 16mm to 135mm has largely gone. There is market demand for lenses outside that range, and macro; and Leica has made some of the best lenses for the R in the recent past. It's a huge gap in the market that the new M camera does let them fill. I wonder if they will ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 3, 2013 Posted July 3, 2013 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here Leica lens inventory. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Orient XI Posted July 3, 2013 Share #2 Posted July 3, 2013 It does indeed seem strange that Leica have abandoned long lens territory. Stranger still that one of the arguments in favour of the M is "you will be able to use your long focal length R lenses (which we have ceased making) on this camera". My dealer told me some time ago that M cameras outsold the R ones by around 4:1 so it is understandable, even if highly annoying, that Leica decided to cease production of the R system. However, when one considers the design and tooling costs for the later R tele-lenses cannot have been anywhere near amortized by their limited production runs, the decision to cease their production seems bizarre. An obvious solution would have been to make mechanically simplified versions for the Visoflex system without the bells and whistles of ROM etc. Visoflex III's have steadily increased in value since the introduction of the digital M models and many examples of the good to excellent performance of by now 25+ year old M-Telyts can be seen on the photofora here. There are problems with re-introducing the Visoflex, extrapolating the last new price would easily put them in the region of £500+ today, the other would mean admitting it was a mistake to discontinue the Visoflex. Against this we have to remember that Leica are now more than ever an optical rather than camera business (e.g. shutters and many other camera components are bought in) and their profits depend upon the sale of lenses. Increasing the range of lenses makes economic sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted July 3, 2013 Share #3 Posted July 3, 2013 Were you only indicating what R lens were available in 2009? I had an R system for many years. My favorite lens was the 135 but perhaps they quit making it before 2009. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 3, 2013 Share #4 Posted July 3, 2013 Were you only indicating what R lens were available in 2009? I had an R system for many years. My favorite lens was the 135 but perhaps they quit making it before 2009. One of my favorite 135 as well. It's been discontinued in 1998 with the Tele-Elmar-M if memory serves. See http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/135mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-R_II Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted July 3, 2013 Share #5 Posted July 3, 2013 There's nothing to stop Leica reintroducing the R lenses re-engineered to use an M mount with manual diaphragm, 6 bit coding, no ROM or Rangefinder coupling for the longer lenses and so on. Whether there's a business case for doing so is anyone's guess because the market will be limited to M Typ 240 and follow-on cameras only and of course they would not be cheap. I paid quite a lot for my 28-90 but I think it is much less than Leica would charge for an equivalent M zoom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted July 3, 2013 There's nothing to stop Leica reintroducing the R lenses re-engineered to use an M mount with manual diaphragm, 6 bit coding, no ROM or Rangefinder coupling for the longer lenses and so on. Whether there's a business case for doing so is anyone's guess because the market will be limited to M Typ 240 and follow-on cameras only and of course they would not be cheap. I paid quite a lot for my 28-90 but I think it is much less than Leica would charge for an equivalent M zoom. I agree, Marc. The reason for the question is that the M (typ 240) has the capacity to take a far wider range of lenses than the traditional M lenses, and Leica made a point of releasing the camera with an R 28-90 zoom attached. The prices of R lenses has gone through the roof. It would be mad to let the opportunity to re-engineer those lenses, simplified, with M mount go by. But then, this is Leica we're talking about. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunil Posted July 3, 2013 Share #7 Posted July 3, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Incredible to think that 26 lens offerings (some of them truly fantastic lenses, according to the reference books) were suddenly discontinued, leaving Leica with only one zoom lens (for the S system) and 135 their longest tele. Yes, and even then, many of these lenses for the M(240) and S are unavailable. My sense is that Leica was actually producing more lenses under the R banner than it does now, keeping in mind they were making both R and M lenses at the time. Yet, they give lack of capacity as one reason why they cannot meet demand. What happened to the capacity that was employed making R lenses? Over time manufacturing processes should improve giving higher yields but then who the heck knows what those gnomes in Wetzlar (or wherever) are dreaming about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 3, 2013 Share #8 Posted July 3, 2013 Sunil, I can only speak for the situation in my country but right now dealer and distributor stock of M lenses is the best that I have ever seen in the 7 years or so I have been using M cameras. The Noctilux, the Summilux wides, everything bar the exotic and very very limited production APO 50 Summicron M ASPH is on dealer's shelves right now. As I recall production volume has been quoted as going from 50 lenses a day, to 120 and aiming for 200 with expectations of higher numbers when the new Wetzlar facility is on line next year. Particular models are made in batches which makes sense I think for the hand assembly processes. a LOT of Noctiluxes for example arrived in one shipment here; enough by accounts to fill every back order and leave some for dealer shelves. The S system is a very different situation. It is a more specialised system that you need to go to a handful of dealers to even see and the number of bodies sold annually is a fraction of that of M bodies. Again just quoting the situation here, we have I think 3 dealers in this entire country. You can bet that they are where they may actually have enough potential customers to justify the large and expensive inventory needed to offer Pro support. Tiny numbers even by Leica standards. The whole medium format digital market is minute for that matter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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