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Dlux6 vs LX7 Don't laugh


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Guest badbob
What is this aversion to reality around here these days?

Regards, Bill

 

The aversion is not to reality, the aversion is to those guys' reality. I don't accept their dogma. This is a Leica forum, I have a Leica camera, and someone seems desperate to prove to me that it's not really a Leica.

 

Now, that is surreal, Bill.

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Perhaps you should just go out and take some pictures with it and see what happens. Some years ago I spent 10 years selling photographic equipment in retail, that didn't actually include Leica, but did all of the top end from NIkon Canon Contax , along with all the medium format offerings from Hasselblad, Mamiya, Bronica etc.

 

Its no exaggeration to say that I had customers who openly admitted to buying the very best available because they were able to, and enjoyed doing so, but in reality literally just liked to own it, look at it, clean and polish it, and maybe once or twice a year try and take photographs with it. They never claimed to be accomplished photographers, but would listen to answers when they asked questions.

There was the flip side to the coin, and I had customers bring in and show me some amazing photographs that included images that went on to become iconic album covers and competition winners,ithat were taken on more modest equipment but with skill, patience and determination.

There are some stunning photographs on this forum, that have been taken with older or more modest equipment that would IMHO, grace any gallery that cared to show them, and that I'd be very proud to have taken. You've bought a very nice, small sensored and capable compact, in the right hands a Panasonic user will potentially accomplish anything that your camera will, and of course with the huge subject of post processing these days, the potential to create something amazing from modest beginnings is most certainly possible.

 

I'm looking at an Eve Arnold print as I type , that I bought not long after she died! from the Marilyn Monroe collection. Its about 28x16 inches at a guess, and I had it professionally framed. To me it's lovely at several levels, taked over 50 years ago,on what would be perhaps considered antiquated equipment. It's got a bit of grain, not as sharp as something my Canon 5d would produce today, but it's a classic image that makes people comment .

 

It's easy to get carried away by specification, I've done so, and probably will again,but its worth nothing if the image hasn't got that certain something. There are photographers on this forum, and I'm not going to embarrass them buy naming them, who, from what I've seen, have produced stunning images from Leica X1's and 50+ year old cameras,that IMHO have been far better than some postings out of M9's M's MM'etc.

 

And it's not really a Leica, it's a rebadged Panasonic, that's taking nothing away from it, I've got a D-Lux 4 that I think is amazing, but I could take the same pictures with the Panasonic equivalent, I liked the way it looked and the warranty was better. It suited me at the time and I've used it a lot, so certainly had my monies worth.

 

That said, get hold of an M9 MM or M, or one of the older M6 cameras or something from the older M range, and it's obvious that you are entering a whole new arena of quality and engineering, and it's a country mile from the D-Lux series.

Edited by Lee Martin
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Guest badbob
Perhaps you should just go out and take some pictures with it and see what happens.

 

I have more than 40 years of "just going out and taking pictures" as you say. Some with Leica 'M's, some with the new digital Leicas, and some with other brands. Each camera has its own charms and produces its own value. But there are people here for whom that's not good enough - they have to diss my Leica camera and say "It's only a Panasonic", as though - 1) I never heard that before, and 2) it somehow makes my camera less than what it really is, and what I paid for it.

 

Here's a clue: My D-Lux6 G-Star Raw camera is a Leica. Period, end of sentence.

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Then with that much experience, you'll know that it's not worth getting the least bit upset about who says what and that with perhaps a few exceptions, you'll produce amazing images with whichever camera you happen to have taken out with you. Let's change the record anyway, it was made in the Panasonic factory and it is what it is !!

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...

Here's a clue: My D-Lux6 G-Star Raw camera is a Leica. Period, end of sentence.

 

Much as it may surprise you to read this. I agree. It is a Leica.

 

Nobody is saying it isn't.

 

Please try to understand. What we are saying is that it only differs in cosmetic terms from the equivalent Panasonic. That is not a criticism, or a belittling, simply a statement of fact.

 

I have owned LXes - plural - and a D-Lux 4. I was never bothered by the fact that they are essentially the same. Why then did I buy a D-Lux after 2 Panasonics? Because the Leica took an accessory hand-grip making it easier to handle than the equivalent Panasonic.

 

Substance over style.

 

Simply be content that you have a good camera. Master it, use it to the full.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

Edited by bill
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Guest badbob

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Then with that much experience, you'll know that it's not worth getting the least bit upset about who says what and that with perhaps a few exceptions, you'll produce amazing images with whichever camera you happen to have taken out with you. Let's change the record anyway, it was made in the Panasonic factory and it is what it is !!

 

I would really like to have the documentation or direct statement from a Pana or Leica official that confirms what you said. This camera may seem like a simple thing to you, but on close examination, there are many possibilities for differences, even if some of those differences (and significant differences at that) were made by Panasonic. It's just not that simple. Until I have the official statement or document, it's a Leica.

 

How do I know it's a Leica and not a Panasonic? How many ways should I list? It's written, inscribed, engraved, and built into every aspect of the camera. If that weren't enough, I have a very prestigious company (Leica) standing behind it with full Leica documentation and support.

 

I can accept any argument as a working theory, but that's it, just theory, until proof arrives.

 

Someone still needs to answer the really serious question: If I'm working in the camera store and selling a D-Lux6 over the counter, am I obligated to inform the customer that the camera is possibly or certainly a Panasonic? If the customer then complains to Leica, what do I tell my Leica rep? Do I lie and say that the customer asked first, or do I admit that I brought it up, even if that becomes a point against me and my status as a store employee?

 

Don't ignore the question - I've had real situations like that when I sold electronics.

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If it bothers you that much, go and get your money back quickly. From my understanding any Leica retailer will be very honest open and up front with you, and confirm its origin and from which factory. They will probably tell you about the better warranty, slightly different software etc, but same glass,circuit boards etc. Be happy with it

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Guest badbob
If it bothers you that much, go and get your money back quickly. From my understanding any Leica retailer will be very honest open and up front with you, and confirm its origin and from which factory. They will probably tell you about the better warranty, slightly different software etc, but same glass,circuit boards etc. Be happy with it

 

I read this whole thread, and the only unhappy, dissatisfied, grumpy people were people who don't own the camera. So you're speaking to an empty room on that one.

 

But you still dodged the question, didn't you? Do you, as the store salesman at b&h or Samy's, have to tell the prospective customer that the D-Lux6 is possibly or certainly a Panasonic, even when they don't ask? You really don't like that question, since the answer reveals the insincerity of most of the postings here.

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I'm sure the great majority of people on here are happy and content with their purchases and actively using them. If I was selling it, then I'd point out the fact that it is to all intents and purposes one and the same as the Panasonic, and potentially show them or direct them to all of the photographic publications that have historically pointed out this connection throughout all the previous clones. As a balance obviously point out the different materias and aesthetics along with the accessories, and if possible put a memory card in each and take some comparative test shots, I'm sure that you did that prior to handing over your money, if not, why not. If the Leica produced better pictures for you, then happy days . If you are still not happy, or convinced as to what you have actually bought then I surrender . There is a wealth of people with enough experience on here telling you what they believe to be accurate and credible. What reason would they have to give you incorrect information.

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If I swop cars for cameras...

 

 

Do you, as the store salesman at a VW or Seat dealership, have to tell the prospective customer that the Seat Leon is possibly or certainly a Volkswagen even when they don't ask? You really don't like that question, since the answer reveals the insincerity of most of the postings here.

 

D'you see how daft that sounds?

 

Now.

 

...Simply be content that you have a good camera.

 

... Be happy with it.

 

There's a bit of a pattern here. Good advice, I think. You are the one swearing black is white and getting so excited about it I fear for the safety of the zebras in the zoo.

 

Just use the thing. What do inconvenient truths matter anyway, eh...?

 

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

 

 

Sent from another Galaxy

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Perhaps the fact that on this huge Leica Forum you might be the only purchaser , or at least the only one questioning the origin of their purchase should tell you something. Perhaps the majority did some research, and thought that for a copy, even allowing for the very nice accessories the huge price discrepancy didn't warrant the difference. You clearly like it, I like the look of it, you liked it enough to buy it, congratulations .

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Guest badbob
I'm sure the great majority of people on here are happy and content with their purchases and actively using them. If I was selling it, then I'd point out the fact that it is to all intents and purposes one and the same as the Panasonic, and potentially show them or direct them to all of the photographic publications that have historically pointed out this connection throughout all the previous clones. As a balance obviously point out the different materias and aesthetics along with the accessories, and if possible put a memory card in each and take some comparative test shots, I'm sure that you did that prior to handing over your money, if not, why not. If the Leica produced better pictures for you, then happy days . If you are still not happy, or convinced as to what you have actually bought then I surrender . There is a wealth of people with enough experience on here telling you what they believe to be accurate and credible. What reason would they have to give you incorrect information.

 

You certainly don't know sales, when you try to flood a prospect with a bunch of stuff they don't want or need to know. Furthermore, you'd never make it in sales when you try to patronize customers who might have serious questions, and all you can say is "Be happy with what you have".

 

The corporation I work in asks that we treat everyone, even our co-workers with respect, and don't try BS'ing them or patronizing them. But that's probably why you're here, so no matter how much bad advice you shell out, there's no penalty.

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Guest badbob
Perhaps the fact that on this huge Leica Forum you might be the only purchaser , or at least the only one questioning the origin of their purchase should tell you something. Perhaps the majority did some research, and thought that for a copy, even allowing for the very nice accessories the huge price discrepancy didn't warrant the difference. You clearly like it, I like the look of it, you liked it enough to buy it, congratulations .

 

Typically, you have everything exactly backwards. I have no such questions, only answers I feel very confident about. You on the other hand, along with the other guy, are stumbling all over the place trying to cover up for the fact that you don't have the answers. You and the other guy gripe about prices, no doubt because you have a negative view of items like the D-Lux6. If you feel so negatively about that Leica camera, what are you doing on the Leica forum?

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Congratulations you've bored me into submission. I think the truth is that you feel like you've actually been "had over" and are trying to save face or make it look as if the whole thing is justifiable. In the event that you bump into another purchaser of the G Star version,ask him/her about the Panasonic cloning. I know you won't listen to their reply, but never mind .

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Congratulations you've bored me into submission. I think the truth is that you feel like you've actually been "had over" and are trying to save face or make it look as if the whole thing is justifiable. In the event that you bump into another purchaser of the G Star version,ask him/her about the Panasonic cloning. I know you won't listen to their reply, but never mind .

 

How long did it take you to become such a sour person? Who hurt you so bad that you feel the need to harangue someone who has a better camera than yours? You must realize that everyone who reads this is going to see that you have "camera envy", just because you can't afford a Leica. So I say to you, there's hope! You can buy a Panasonic LX7 and pretend it's really a Leica. And who knows? In some parallel universes it might actually be a Leica.

 

But just so you don't have yet another excuse to rant about nothing here, I bought my Leica with my hard-earned money.

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It might help if you actually read things first and then thought, and then typed !! Amongst about 10 cameras I have, as already stated a D-Lux 4, which,according to your thought process, is a real Leica ?? Like yours. ?? , I mentioned having a Canon 5 d, but didn't feel the need to mention what other cameras I have, so you have no idea what other cameras I might own and from what manufacturer. Nor is it relevant. You seem to be very excitable about the whole thing. Just keep telling yourself " it's only a camera" not that dissimilar to your other Panasonic LF1 !! Goodbye, and relax, if you get to a Leica Convention, tell the people there that you've got a real Leica G Star, they will be very impressed.

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Guest badbob
It might help if you actually read things first and then thought, and then typed !! Amongst about 10 cameras I have, as already stated a D-Lux 4, which,according to your thought process, is a real Leica ?? Like yours. ?? , I mentioned having a Canon 5 d, but didn't feel the need to mention what other cameras I have, so you have no idea what other cameras I might own and from what manufacturer. Nor is it relevant. You seem to be very excitable about the whole thing. Just keep telling yourself " it's only a camera" not that dissimilar to your other Panasonic LF1 !! Goodbye, and relax, if you get to a Leica Convention, tell the people there that you've got a real Leica G Star, they will be very impressed.

 

You seem angry and upset. Is that what your cameras do to you? I feel pretty good myself, and I really like my Leica camera. I'm one of those guys manufacturers call a "net promoter", who helps sell the product by word of mouth. That seems not to work here because of the negative people.

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This is crazy! But also quite funny :)

 

Because people are telling Badbob that his new Leica was made by Panasonic, he sees that as some kind of personal insult, and is ignoring fact to convince himself that everyone else is wrong. How could it be the same as a mere Panasonic?

 

Ive bought a couple of the Pana/Leicas. I bought an LC5 (same as Digilux 1) used, and a new Clux 2 equivalent. I bought the new Pana as it was on sale for a very low price. Personally I'd have preferred the Leica versions, but I didn't need the software and wasn't bothered about the longer warranty, so for me the extra cost for a Leica badge wasn't justified. But I have bought what is essentially the same product.

 

Panasonic make very nice compact digitals, with lenses designed in partnership with Leica, that's why Leica are happy to put their name on them. Why should that be such an insult to anyone?

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