Leica X Vario Report

[onceuponatime]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi There

Just like to correct / add to this:

 

 

86mm 18-50 f2.8 Sigma (sorry don't have one to measure)

71mm 18-55 f2.8-4 Fuji X - 110mm fully extended

60mm 18-46 F3.5-6.4 Xvario - 70mm fully extended

 

I know because I measured them today with a tape measure.

 

 

I really really want to handle the Xvario.

95mm deep (body 35mm, lens 60mm) is pretty tiny & lovely.

 

Still i wish the body was image stabilised as 70mm f6.4 low light (indoors, outdoors low light)

i would need iso3200 to get say 1/45 to keep the photo non blurred.

 

 

(Fuji f2.8-4 length 71mm-110mm with image stabilisation makes the extra length & f number more usable in low light

likewise Sigma 18-50mm f.2.8 length 86mm -121mm image stabilised )

Edited June 15, 2013 by onceuponatime

[jonoslack]

I really really want to handle the Xvario.

95mm deep (body 35mm, lens 60mm) is pretty tiny & lovely.

 

Still i wish the body was image stabilised as 70mm f6.4 low light (indoors, outdoors low light)

i would need iso3200 to get say 1/45 to keep the photo non blurred.

 

 

(Fuji f2.8-4 length 71mm-110mm with image stabilisation makes the extra length & f number more usable in low light

likewise Sigma 18-50mm f.2.8 length 86mm -121mm image stabilised )

 

Difficult decisions.

Incidentally, the software based IS does work quite well for static subjects at below 1/45 (better than you might imagine). No competetion for the wonderful IS in the OMD though!

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[dwbell]

Fine - but you aren't talking fully extended lens length

the Fuji 18-55 is actually 104mm fully extended - don't know about the Sigma.

 

What you also aren't mentioning is the quality - which is surely relevant?

 

Why compare fully extended Jono? When you're carrying the camera is where the 'compact' element comes in, when you're shooting I'd suggest it probably is less important how far our it comes. Don't you think?

[jonoslack]

Why compare fully extended Jono? When you're carrying the camera is where the 'compact' element comes in, when you're shooting I'd suggest it probably is less important how far our it comes. Don't you think?

 

I don't agree with you - if you're out shooting, then the lens is as likely to be fully extended as not . . . but . . .

 

Quite honestly David I'm tired of the whole subject.

if the camera had arrived with an f2.8/f5.6 zoom nobody would have bothered . . . . but let's face it, how often is the 1/2 stop difference between f2.8 and f3.5 at 28mm a show-stopper?

 

. . . . . and the difference between f5.6 and f6.4 is only 1/3 stop

 

The lens is smaller - and in my opinion it produces better results then the Panasonic 12-35. The whole camera is a serious step smaller than a Fuji XE1 with the 18-55, but quite honestly, who cares - it really isn't a competitor for either of these cameras and the difference in size is not enough to amount to a hill of beans.

 

I'm not for a minute suggesting that it's a camera for everyone - but look - Sean Reid Likes it, in fact, you'll find that almost everyone who's spent any time with it likes it.

 

This evening, as an experiment, I shot it in the local pub - always tricky - it just performed well, the seamless change between AF and MF on the lens, the aperture and shutter speed dial - it just works as a camera.

 

The Software Image Stabilisation is obviously rubbish . . . . except . . . hey! it works, of course, it's only useful for static objects . . . .. . . . erm . . . just like IS in every other camera!

 

Clearly the teaser campaign was seriously irritating (I still can't make myself type the words . . . well, I can't), but as far as I'm concerned (after 6 months and thousands of images). Initial dismay turned from begrudging respect to real liking - a real successor to the Digilux 2 indeed.

 

. . . . . and all people can talk about is the slow zoom - it seems that neither image quality nor anything else is relevant.

 

Bah!

[Mark T]

I don't agree with you - if you're out shooting, then the lens is as likely to be fully extended as not . . . but . . .

 

Quite honestly David I'm tired of the whole subject.

if the camera had arrived with an f2.8/f5.6 zoom nobody would have bothered . . . . but let's face it, how often is the 1/2 stop difference between f2.8 and f3.5 at 28mm a show-stopper?

 

. . . . . and the difference between f5.6 and f6.4 is only 1/3 stop

 

The lens is smaller - and in my opinion it produces better results then the Panasonic 12-35. The whole camera is a serious step smaller than a Fuji XE1 with the 18-55, but quite honestly, who cares - it really isn't a competitor for either of these cameras and the difference in size is not enough to amount to a hill of beans.

 

I'm not for a minute suggesting that it's a camera for everyone - but look - Sean Reid Likes it, in fact, you'll find that almost everyone who's spent any time with it likes it.

 

This evening, as an experiment, I shot it in the local pub - always tricky - it just performed well, the seamless change between AF and MF on the lens, the aperture and shutter speed dial - it just works as a camera.

 

The Software Image Stabilisation is obviously rubbish . . . . except . . . hey! it works, of course, it's only useful for static objects . . . .. . . . erm . . . just like IS in every other camera!

 

Clearly the teaser campaign was seriously irritating (I still can't make myself type the words . . . well, I can't), but as far as I'm concerned (after 6 months and thousands of images). Initial dismay turned from begrudging respect to real liking - a real successor to the Digilux 2 indeed.

 

. . . . . and all people can talk about is the slow zoom - it seems that neither image quality nor anything else is relevant.

 

Bah!

I agree with you Jono. Are people so lacking in imagination that they can only take a good picture "wide open" and get all school-girl excited about "creamy, dreamy bokeh". Faaaaark, give me a break.

I am a film shooter. However, if I was going to shoot a digital camera the X Vario makes a lot of sense to me. Super convenient, zoom, auto-iso, auto-focus, auto-expose = done. On those occasions when you want to take control, it fits more or less seamlessly with film Leicas.

If people are really worried about image quality at high iso, I say get a tripod. It will make for a better than opening a lens up in most cases anyway. If it's for photographing people, learn how to use a flash... But that all sounds a bit like hard work I suppose.

[Feudal1]

I agree with you Jono. Are people so lacking in imagination that they can only take a good picture "wide open" and get all school-girl excited about "creamy, dreamy bokeh". Faaaaark, give me a break.

I am a film shooter. However, if I was going to shoot a digital camera the X Vario makes a lot of sense to me. Super convenient, zoom, auto-iso, auto-focus, auto-expose = done. On those occasions when you want to take control, it fits more or less seamlessly with film Leicas.

If people are really worried about image quality at high iso, I say get a tripod. It will make for a better than opening a lens up in most cases anyway. If it's for photographing people, learn how to use a flash... But that all sounds a bit like hard work I suppose.

 

All of the complaints about what the X Vario "isn't" seem irrational to me. The camera is what it is, and no amount of complaining is going to change that. It's not been bad here in this forum, but I was actually called a fool in another forum for spending money on the X Vario! The amount of vitriol and anger directed at this camera is crazy, and at a level I don't believe I've seen with any other camera. I've also noticed that a lot of it seems to be coming from people who own Fuji cameras like the XE-1 - seems odd to me. Why insult people who pick another camera? They're not going to convince me, and I'm not going to convince them, so what's the point? And I tried the XE-1 along with the 18-55mm and 35mm - it wasn't for me, and I didn't think the image quality was as great as everyone was saying (personal opinion here, but I think the image quality from the X Vario is better than the Fuji XE-1). So I didn't keep the XE-1. But if people like that camera, that's great - far be it from me to tell anyone else what they should and should not be shooting. That's the beauty of having choices!

 

Anyway, I really like my X Vario. I've been out doing a little more shooting today, mostly just to practice and learn the strengths of the camera, and to get comfortable with it. Already, I'm seeing things I really like about the camera, like the way it handles, and how nice the color rendering is. It's fun to shoot, and the controls allow for quick adjustments as conditions change. One issue I did notice - in bright sunlight, shooting using the LCD screen isn't ideal. I didn't think I would need an EVF, but I'm going to go ahead and spring for it.

 

A sample of the photos I've shot with the X Vario...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Ecaton]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I don't agree with you - if you're out shooting, then the lens is as likely to be fully extended as not . . . but . . .

 

Quite honestly David I'm tired of the whole subject.

if the camera had arrived with an f2.8/f5.6 zoom nobody would have bothered . . . . but let's face it, how often is the 1/2 stop difference between f2.8 and f3.5 at 28mm a show-stopper?

 

. . . . . and the difference between f5.6 and f6.4 is only 1/3 stop

 

The lens is smaller - and in my opinion it produces better results then the Panasonic 12-35. The whole camera is a serious step smaller than a Fuji XE1 with the 18-55, but quite honestly, who cares - it really isn't a competitor for either of these cameras and the difference in size is not enough to amount to a hill of beans.

 

I'm not for a minute suggesting that it's a camera for everyone - but look - Sean Reid Likes it, in fact, you'll find that almost everyone who's spent any time with it likes it.

 

This evening, as an experiment, I shot it in the local pub - always tricky - it just performed well, the seamless change between AF and MF on the lens, the aperture and shutter speed dial - it just works as a camera.

 

The Software Image Stabilisation is obviously rubbish . . . . except . . . hey! it works, of course, it's only useful for static objects . . . .. . . . erm . . . just like IS in every other camera!

 

Clearly the teaser campaign was seriously irritating (I still can't make myself type the words . . . well, I can't), but as far as I'm concerned (after 6 months and thousands of images). Initial dismay turned from begrudging respect to real liking - a real successor to the Digilux 2 indeed.

 

. . . . . and all people can talk about is the slow zoom - it seems that neither image quality nor anything else is relevant.

 

Bah!

 

The benchmark of lens speed is not the cheap f3.5-5.6 DSLR kit lens which can be had for USD 50 or so in the used market. The Panasonic 12-35 with its constant f2.8 and the Fuji f2.8-4, 18-55mm are the ones to look at. Both are compact, good performers and premium priced. Compared to the Vario`s zoom they are considerably faster, include OIS, offer more useful and exciting zoom ranges and one is even splash proved. That they fit to cameras with interchangeable mounts is not a disadvantage considering the pace of sensor innovation. The image quality of the Vario seems to be nice, which is the case with all new and newer aps-c or mft cameras. But from all the examples I have seen so far from the X-Vario none looks exceptional. With its usual 16MP Sony sensor and what looks to be a good zoom glued to the body, it delivers in the me too pack of the higher end of its market segment. If ultimate IQ is really what I`m after, I`d put a Sigma DP Merrill into my bag and for versatility a Fuji XE1 with the 18-55mm and would still have USD 1500 change left in my pocket (no, this is not a typo) as compared to the X-Vario with EVF.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Ecaton

[THEME]

All of the complaints about what the X Vario "isn't" seem irrational to me. The camera is what it is, and no amount of complaining is going to change that. It's not been bad here in this forum, but I was actually called a fool in another forum for spending money on the X Vario! The amount of vitriol and anger directed at this camera is crazy, and at a level I don't believe I've seen with any other camera. I've also noticed that a lot of it seems to be coming from people who own Fuji cameras like the XE-1 - seems odd to me. Why insult people who pick another camera? They're not going to convince me, and I'm not going to convince them, so what's the point? And I tried the XE-1 along with the 18-55mm and 35mm - it wasn't for me, and I didn't think the image quality was as great as everyone was saying (personal opinion here, but I think the image quality from the X Vario is better than the Fuji XE-1). So I didn't keep the XE-1. But if people like that camera, that's great - far be it from me to tell anyone else what they should and should not be shooting. That's the beauty of having choices!

 

Anyway, I really like my X Vario. I've been out doing a little more shooting today, mostly just to practice and learn the strengths of the camera, and to get comfortable with it. Already, I'm seeing things I really like about the camera, like the way it handles, and how nice the color rendering is. It's fun to shoot, and the controls allow for quick adjustments as conditions change. One issue I did notice - in bright sunlight, shooting using the LCD screen isn't ideal. I didn't think I would need an EVF, but I'm going to go ahead and spring for it.

 

A sample of the photos I've shot with the X Vario...

 

Those colors really pop. OOC?

[Mark T]

The benchmark of lens speed is not the cheap f3.5-5.6 DSLR kit lens which can be had for USD 50 or so in the used market. The Panasonic 12-35 with its constant f2.8 and the Fuji f2.8-4, 18-55mm are the ones to look at. Both are compact, good performers and premium priced. Compared to the Vario`s zoom they are considerably faster, include OIS, offer more useful and exciting zoom ranges and one is even splash proved. That they fit to cameras with interchangeable mounts is not a disadvantage considering the pace of sensor innovation. The image quality of the Vario seems to be nice, which is the case with all new and newer aps-c or mft cameras. But from all the examples I have seen so far from the X-Vario none looks exceptional. With its usual 16MP Sony sensor and what looks to be a good zoom glued to the body, it delivers in the me too pack of the higher end of its market segment. If ultimate IQ is really what I`m after, I`d put a Sigma DP Merrill into my bag and for versatility a Fuji XE1 with the 18-55mm and would still have USD 1500 change left in my pocket (no, this is not a typo) as compared to the X-Vario with EVF.

Thank you. I (and I assume all others), are enlightened now with the benefit of your widom. Now I know that a Fuji and a Sigma are the only two cameras worthy of consideration for anything, the other manufacturers can save themselves the time and shut up shop. As you point out, you'd have to be stupid to buy a Leica X Vario. So Leica should shut first. Might as well close the Leica forum while we're at it and go to a Sigma or a Fuji one too.

Omniscience is a wonderful thing.

[dwbell]

I don't agree with you - if you're out shooting, then the lens is as likely to be fully extended as not . . . but . . .

 

Quite honestly David I'm tired of the whole subject.

if the camera had arrived with an f2.8/f5.6 zoom nobody would have bothered . . . . but let's face it, how often is the 1/2 stop difference between f2.8 and f3.5 at 28mm a show-stopper?

 

. . . . . and the difference between f5.6 and f6.4 is only 1/3 stop

 

The lens is smaller - and in my opinion it produces better results then the Panasonic 12-35. The whole camera is a serious step smaller than a Fuji XE1 with the 18-55, but quite honestly, who cares - it really isn't a competitor for either of these cameras and the difference in size is not enough to amount to a hill of beans.

 

I'm not for a minute suggesting that it's a camera for everyone - but look - Sean Reid Likes it, in fact, you'll find that almost everyone who's spent any time with it likes it.

 

This evening, as an experiment, I shot it in the local pub - always tricky - it just performed well, the seamless change between AF and MF on the lens, the aperture and shutter speed dial - it just works as a camera.

 

The Software Image Stabilisation is obviously rubbish . . . . except . . . hey! it works, of course, it's only useful for static objects . . . .. . . . erm . . . just like IS in every other camera!

 

Clearly the teaser campaign was seriously irritating (I still can't make myself type the words . . . well, I can't), but as far as I'm concerned (after 6 months and thousands of images). Initial dismay turned from begrudging respect to real liking - a real successor to the Digilux 2 indeed.

 

. . . . . and all people can talk about is the slow zoom - it seems that neither image quality nor anything else is relevant.

 

Bah!

 

Hi Jono, thanks for your reply. I understand your difficult position, and how irritating it must be. I'll accept your response in good faith, despite you answering many questions I didn't actually ask!

[dwbell]

I agree with you Jono. Are people so lacking in imagination that they can only take a good picture "wide open" and get all school-girl excited about "creamy, dreamy bokeh". Faaaaark, give me a break.

I am a film shooter. However, if I was going to shoot a digital camera the X Vario makes a lot of sense to me. Super convenient, zoom, auto-iso, auto-focus, auto-expose = done. On those occasions when you want to take control, it fits more or less seamlessly with film Leicas.

If people are really worried about image quality at high iso, I say get a tripod. It will make for a better than opening a lens up in most cases anyway. If it's for photographing people, learn how to use a flash... But that all sounds a bit like hard work I suppose.

 

Thanks for being really patronising Mark. You have no idea what my imagination is limited by. You have no idea what my images demand. You have no idea what I require for a tool to create my art. Yet you feel qualified to consider me inferior.

 

Nice.

[Ecaton]

Thank you. I (and I assume all others), are enlightened now with the benefit of your widom. Now I know that a Fuji and a Sigma are the only two cameras worthy of consideration for anything, the other manufacturers can save themselves the time and shut up shop. As you point out, you'd have to be stupid to buy a Leica X Vario. So Leica should shut first. Might as well close the Leica forum while we're at it and go to a Sigma or a Fuji one too.

Omniscience is a wonderful thing.

 

Your comments on this forum are borderline and a case for the moderators.

[indie]

Hi Jono!

 

Paula from Detroit here again. First, I also want to thank you for sharing your feelings and experiences with the new Leica X Vario. Now, I have a question for you. I probably have about the same photography interests and skills as your wife Emma. So, I was wondering if she had a Digilux 2 (bought February 2005) and an X 1 (bought September 2010) would there be any practical or useful purpose to purchasing the new X Vario? Or should I wait till the next Leica compact down the pipeline?

 

To be honest with you, I was quite smitten when Leica used the nickname "Paula" for the camera and since I am a Leica fan (though I just own their compact cameras since the mid 1990s) I wanted to get it for that reason alone but in our family money truly does not grow on trees.

 

So I guess my question is, is there a very practical reason for me to consider this camera or should I wait till the next compact camera down the line for Leica. Now if Leica wants to give "Paula" to a Paula to try out I would love it!

 

 

~Paula

[Ruhayat]

...One issue I did notice - in bright sunlight, shooting using the LCD screen isn't ideal. I didn't think I would need an EVF, but I'm going to go ahead and spring for it...

 

An alternative to the EVF is what we use for DSLR video shooting: a removable loupe. It attaches to the camera's LCD frame via a weak magnet, so you put it on when you want to focus, and can take it off and put it inside a pocket when you're walking or don't need the precision.

 

They range from pricey heavy-duty ones to cheap China-made plastic. You can see some here:

LCD Hoods & Loupes | B&H Photo Video

[dwbell]

An alternative to the EVF is what we use for DSLR video shooting: a removable loupe. It attaches to the camera's LCD frame via a weak magnet, so you put it on when you want to focus, and can take it off and put it inside a pocket when you're walking or don't need the precision.

 

They range from pricey heavy-duty ones to cheap China-made plastic. You can see some here:

LCD Hoods & Loupes | B&H Photo Video

 

Indeed, a hoodman loupe (or similar) semi-permanently fixed onto the rear LcD can really be a nice alternative to a built in EVF.

[Ruhayat]

Indeed, a hoodman loupe (or similar) semi-permanently fixed onto the rear LcD can really be a nice alternative to a built in EVF.

 

And the advantages are you can use one with (almost) any digital camera you own, and it provides the same high quality image the LCD provides (since LCD screens tend to be better quality than tiny EVF screens, not to mention bigger than an EVF, too, when you view them up close with a loupe). I love mine, and it's just a cheap Chinese knockoff of the excellent but pricey Zacuto.

[Peter L]

Hello All, I am really enjoying this Leica Vario X, it is a great small camera with excellent image quality, very well built, really nice layout of functions and menus, a pleasure to shoot with, the price ? oh the price, oh the price, well, its worth it.

Here are some snaps, a mix of jpeg and DNG.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[onceuponatime]

Hello All, I am really enjoying this Leica Vario X, it is a great small camera with excellent image quality, very well built, really nice layout of functions and menus, a pleasure to shoot with, the price ? oh the price, oh the price, well, its worth it.

Here are some snaps, a mix of jpeg and DNG.

 

Theres wonderful clarity, colour, naturalness to the table food ... it should be in the Digilux2 thread !

[captain]

I think so - rather refreshing isn't it!

 

No I dont think it is, I think its just people have just given into the brow beating till they feel there is no point to keep vocalising their opinions and I think your comment is just as superior sounding to those in opposite camp.

 

I thank anyone like yourself who takes the time to do reviews and post them but you lost me at your disclaimer that if something is wrong you would tell Leica and point out the good to everyone else. The fact is some companies need a wake a up call every now and then to put them back on track but Leica seems to protect itself from overly harsh reviews by sending it to those that are kind and overly polite with any short comings. It seems those red dot enthusiasts doing the reviews get sent cameras but we all have a soft spot for that red dot or we wouldnt even be here talking about it. If this camera is not meant for us as its now the current sugar coat line then it really should be sent to reviewers that have no real interest in the Leica brand at all. I remember with the M8 debacle Leica asking reviewers to keep the IR problems under wraps till they could sort out a strategy to minimise the damage. Any other manufacturer would have been canned for that, but Leica got away with it. A $3000 dollar camera where is 50mm equivalent focal length (the most popular focal length of all) is f5.1 is indefensible yet thats pretty much what most reviewers are doing. Of course it gives good photos at these speeds any camera manufacturers lens would give good results at f5.6. I raised the matter before how the cameras deficiencies like its fixed lens are used to make it sound like a unique camera. The Fuji X-E1 kit zoom 2 stops down will easily match the Leicas slower lens for less than half the money with IS and state of the art EVF built in. Glue the lens on if you feel thats a unique feature. I dont deny is a beautiful camera but most reviews are avoiding highlighting its deficiencies. No IS, no built in EVF, incredibly slow lens, Im sorry but those who spend $3000 are not mugs just because they dont want or need a system camera but at least give them something for their money.

 

I apologise for any offence this post may cause anyone but this thread struck me as a smug we have silenced the critics victory discussion. I think the criticisms have been quite valid. You too are absolutely correct though that at least half the angst could have been alleviated had they not promised a mini M.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Ruhayat]

...I raised the matter before how the cameras deficiencies like its fixed lens are used to make it sound like a unique camera. The Fuji X-E1 kit zoom 2 stops down will easily match the Leicas slower lens for less than half the money with IS and state of the art EVF built in. Glue the lens on if you feel thats a unique feature. I dont deny is a beautiful camera but most reviews are avoiding highlighting its deficiencies. No IS, no built in EVF, incredibly slow lens, Im sorry but those who spend $3000 are not mugs just because they dont want or need a system camera but at least give them something for their money.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

But actually, that argument above is neither new nor is it exclusive to the X Vario. This is not a rant against you per se, but man, I have read and heard variations of this same argument time and again, and it is made against practically any and all products that Leica releases post the age of the internet.

 

Leica M8? M9? M Type 240? X1? X2? V-Lux? D-Lux? C-Lux? It seems they are all soundly beaten by the Canon 5D in all its variations, all the Panasonic equivalents, Nikon D300s, D700, D800, D800e, Fuji X-Pro, XE-1, X100, X100s, Sony Nex 5, 6, 7... hell, you name it, and Leica cameras are trounced by it. All of it. Every single product launch, I read and hear this same argument.

 

It seems Leica is never and will never be a good value for money proposition when compared to competing products.

 

Leica's products lack technology that is present in its competitors' basic offerings. It's too slow, fast, expensive, heavy, limiting. Etc etc. Those are the messages we - I - keep getting over and over again, and such arguments, again and again, miss the whole point why I still continue to buy Leica:

 

It has nothing much to do with technology.