zmever Posted June 5, 2013 Share #1 Posted June 5, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know something that tele-elmarit 90(thin) comes later than tele-elmarit 90(fat). But I don't really know the difference between tele-elmarit 90(thin) and tele-elmarit-m 90. They look quite similar to each other!!!! Can anyone give me a lesson about them? Thanks!! Miao Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 5, 2013 Posted June 5, 2013 Hi zmever, Take a look here What's the difference between tele-elmarit 90(thin) and tele-elmarit-m 90???. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Orient XI Posted June 5, 2013 Share #2 Posted June 5, 2013 Welcome to the forum Zmever! The two lenses have a very similar performance with the later one just having the edge despite being a four — instead of a five — element lens. For that reason it is also lighter at 220g against 325g for the earlier lens (mind you, I have never had a lens that weighed what the catalogues said!). I trust you will enjoy using either; the 90mm focal length will teach you a lot about photography. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 5, 2013 Share #3 Posted June 5, 2013 Get the 225g model. Make sure you use a 90/4 macro lens hood on it as it is prone to lens flare. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmever Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted June 5, 2013 Thanks for reply!! So that means tele-elmarit(thin) more similar to tele-elmarit-m instead of fat TE? Does thin TE has better performance than fat TE? Should I use a 12575 hood for thin TE? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted June 5, 2013 Share #5 Posted June 5, 2013 I know something that tele-elmarit 90(thin) comes later than tele-elmarit 90(fat). But I don't really know the difference between tele-elmarit 90(thin) and tele-elmarit-m 90. They look quite similar to each other!!!! Can anyone give me a lesson about them? ... Leitz and Leica caused some confusion with naming their 1:2.8/90mm lenses. The first was the Elmarit - no "Tele-" and no "M". It was produced from 1959 to 1974; most came with M-bayonet, a few with screw mount. The early ones - produced in bigger numbers - were in silver chrome with a typical vulcanit band at the rear end. Later ones were black. You may call it the "long" Elmarit. You can screw off the lens element - which is very useful for the Visoflex where the lens still gives excellent results today. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Elmarit_f%3D_9_cm_1:2.8 Then came the first Tele-Elmarit (no "M") - produced from 1964 to 1974, so at the same time as the Elmarit. This is the "fat" Tele-Elmarit, or better the short one, as it was a real telelens, which builds shorter due to its different optical design. It was first made in silver chrome (rather rare and rather expensive today - looking great on an M 3) but most examples are in black. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Tele-Elmarit Then came the Tele-Elmarit-M (now the "M" joins the name even if the precedessors also were M-lenses). This is the "thin" Tele-Elmarit with four lenses, while the "fat" one had five. Built from 1973 to 1990 it was the successor of the first Elmarit. I am not completely sure if the "M" was added to the name "Tele-Elmarit" from the very beginning; may be they started later with this in order to make a difference to R-lenses. Anyway there is no difference optically and I don't think the mount was changed during the production time. It was made only in black. So to answer your question: There is no difference between the "thin" Tele-Elmarit and the Tele-Elmarit-M - it is the same lens. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Tele-Elmarit-M Last but not least came the Elmarit-M - they dropped the "Tele-", but of course kept the "M". Certainly the best lens of the family, built from 1990 until 2006. Most were in black, some in silver chrome, and very few in titanium. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-M 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted June 6, 2013 Share #6 Posted June 6, 2013 I am not completely sure if the "M" was added to the name "Tele-Elmarit" from the very beginning; may be they started later with this in order to make a difference to R-lenses. The "M" was introduced sometime midway, there are early examples of the thin Tele-Elmarit without the "M" on the front ring. IMO, to avoid confusion it's preferable to refer to this lens as "Tele-Elmarit (thin)". 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmever Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted June 6, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you very much!! Now I understand! I have a tele-elmarit (thin). It has no "M" on the front ring. and has no big,bold "90" on the berral. I only can find this two differences. version as tele-elmarit-m, only except tele-elmarit comes earlier than tele-elmarit-m. Am I right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted June 6, 2013 Share #8 Posted June 6, 2013 Sure you are right! It would be interesting to know the serial number of your lens without the "M" in the lens name to find out when Leica started to add the M. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmever Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted June 6, 2013 Can you believe it?! I found that there are at least 5 different types of tele-elmarit (thin) by far .... [1] words on front ring"TELE-ELMARIT 1:2.8/90 LEITZ CANADA XXXXXXX"; without big, bold, yellow "90" on the barrel; with "00" on the barrel; straight field-depth lines(no broken line); ((((( example serial number: 2695599 my own lens ))))) [2] words on front ring"TELE-ELMARIT 1:2.8/90 LEITZ CANADA XXXXXXX"; without big, bold, yellow "90" on the barrel; with "05" on the barrel; straight field-depth lines(no broken line); ((((( example serial number: 2831959 ))))) [3] words on front ring "TELE-ELMARIT-M 1:2.8/90 LEITZ LENS MADE IN CANADA"; serial number on barrel; with big, bold, yellow "90" on the barrel; I cannot see it's "00" or "05" on the barrel; straight field-depth lines(no broken line ); ((((( example serial number: 2960184 ))))) [4] words on front ring "TELE-ELMARIT-M 1:2.8/90 LEITZ LENS MADE IN CANADA"; serial number on barrel; with big, bold, yellow "90" on the barrel; with "05" on the barrel; field-depth lines are broken-line; ((((( example serial number: 3216046 ))))) [5] words on front ring "TELE-ELMARIT-M 1:2.8/90 LEITZ LENS MADE IN CANADA"; serial number on barrel; with big, bold, yellow "90" on the barrel; with "00" on the barrel; field-depth lines are broken-line; ((((( example serial number: 32162?? & 3096306 ))))) I am totally confused. You can see the serial number of [4] and [5]. It's very weird. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 6, 2013 Share #10 Posted June 6, 2013 ...You can see the serial number of [4] and [5]. It's very weird. The 00 lens has a focal length of 90mm and the 05, 90.5mm. Mine has 05 as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1joel1 Posted June 7, 2013 Share #11 Posted June 7, 2013 I finally found another "fat" Tele Elmarit in chrome after having one years ago. Of all the 90s that I have shot, not yet the ASPH though, it is unrivaled. It is small, but very solid and best of all, it has a Lanthanum lens element that is not in the black version. I think that this is why it performs so much sharper and contrastier than the other 90s. You pay a premium, but it is well worthwhile IMHO. Cheers, Joel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted June 7, 2013 Share #12 Posted June 7, 2013 I finally found another "fat" Tele Elmarit in chrome after having one years ago. Of all the 90s that I have shot, not yet the ASPH though, it is unrivaled. It is small, but very solid and best of all, it has a Lanthanum lens element that is not in the black version. I think that this is why it performs so much sharper and contrastier than the other 90s. You pay a premium, but it is well worthwhile IMHO. Interesting! I used a friend's chrome one in college in the 1960s and was very impressed, which led me to buy an M4 with the black model TE when it came in at the local dealer. I never thought it was as good as the chrome one I had tried, and it was my least-used Leica lens for decades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted June 8, 2013 Share #13 Posted June 8, 2013 Leitz and Leica caused some confusion with naming their 1:2.8/90mm lenses. The first was the Elmarit - no "Tele-" and no "M". It was produced from 1959 to 1974; most came with M-bayonet, a few with screw mount. The early ones - produced in bigger numbers - were in silver chrome with a typical vulcanit band at the rear end. Later ones were black. You may call it the "long" Elmarit. You can screw off the lens element - which is very useful for the Visoflex where the lens still gives excellent results today. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/Elmarit_f%3D_9_cm_1:2.8 Then came the first Tele-Elmarit (no "M") - produced from 1964 to 1974, so at the same time as the Elmarit. This is the "fat" Tele-Elmarit, or better the short one, as it was a real telelens, which builds shorter due to its different optical design. It was first made in silver chrome (rather rare and rather expensive today - looking great on an M 3) but most examples are in black. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Tele-Elmarit Then came the Tele-Elmarit-M (now the "M" joins the name even if the precedessors also were M-lenses). This is the "thin" Tele-Elmarit with four lenses, while the "fat" one had five. Built from 1973 to 1990 it was the successor of the first Elmarit. I am not completely sure if the "M" was added to the name "Tele-Elmarit" from the very beginning; may be they started later with this in order to make a difference to R-lenses. Anyway there is no difference optically and I don't think the mount was changed during the production time. It was made only in black. So to answer your question: There is no difference between the "thin" Tele-Elmarit and the Tele-Elmarit-M - it is the same lens. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Tele-Elmarit-M Last but not least came the Elmarit-M - they dropped the "Tele-", but of course kept the "M". Certainly the best lens of the family, built from 1990 until 2006. Most were in black, some in silver chrome, and very few in titanium. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-M There is no question the Elmarit-M is the "best" optically, but it is significantly heavier than the "thin" Tele-Elmarit. I tend to carry that lens now that I have it where I would tend to leave my Elmarit-M home leave often just because it added bulk to my camera bag. If you can put up with some flare now and then, the "thin" Tele is a nice lens and handles nicely. I also understand the new 90mm Summarit is also really good. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted June 8, 2013 Share #14 Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) I finally found another "fat" Tele Elmarit in chrome after having one years ago. Of all the 90s that I have shot, not yet the ASPH though, it is unrivaled. It is small, but very solid and best of all, it has a Lanthanum lens element that is not in the black version. I think that this is why it performs so much sharper and contrastier than the other 90s. You pay a premium, but it is well worthwhile IMHO. Cheers, Joel Do you have any source or reference to substantiate your claim regarding the exclusive use of lanthanum glass in the chrome version? I don't doubt that your chrome fat TE is a superb performer, but it seems rather unlikely to me that an element of a specific glass type is simply swapped against a different one without necessitating a complete recomputation of the optical design, which in return would likely necessitate changes in the mount etc. It is not clear to me, why Leitz should go to such lengths if the lens was such a good performer? Lanthanum glass was widely used in the Leitz lenses of the 1960s, e.g. in the Elmar 2.8/50 (1958-1974), the rigid Summicron 50 (1956-68), the 3 element Elmar 90 (1964-68) the Elmar 135 (1960-65), the Summaron 2.8 (1958-1974) and probably more. Why should Leitz have stopped using Lanthanum with the introduction of the black TE in 1966? Edited June 8, 2013 by joeswe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1joel1 Posted June 11, 2013 Share #15 Posted June 11, 2013 Do you have any source or reference to substantiate your claim regarding the exclusive use of lanthanum glass in the chrome version? I don't doubt that your chrome fat TE is a superb performer, but it seems rather unlikely to me that an element of a specific glass type is simply swapped against a different one without necessitating a complete recomputation of the optical design, which in return would likely necessitate changes in the mount etc. It is not clear to me, why Leitz should go to such lengths if the lens was such a good performer? Lanthanum glass was widely used in the Leitz lenses of the 1960s, e.g. in the Elmar 2.8/50 (1958-1974), the rigid Summicron 50 (1956-68), the 3 element Elmar 90 (1964-68) the Elmar 135 (1960-65), the Summaron 2.8 (1958-1974) and probably more. Why should Leitz have stopped using Lanthanum with the introduction of the black TE in 1966? Well, that's a good point. It's just something that I have "known" for many years. I can't substantiate it, but remember being told by a person that would know. I might be biased, but I have done tests that seem to me at least, demonstrate a much sharper and contrastier image with the silver model. Nothing scientific or side by side so, like I said, I could be biased. Why did they stop using it, I can only guess. Perhaps by 1966, lanthanum was expensive so since they changed the mount materials, they changed the lens element so that it would be less costly to Leitz. Perhaps radioactive glass was going out of vogue? I wonder who might actually know, it would be good to find out. If anyone in SoCal has a black version, we could arrange some side by side comparisons. Cheers, Joel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted June 11, 2013 Share #16 Posted June 11, 2013 Leitz and Leica caused some confusion with naming their 1:2.8/90mm lenses. < Loads of arcane 90mm Leica information> Most were in black, some in silver chrome, and very few in titanium. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/90mm_f/2.8_Elmarit-M Sometimes you guys are a little un-nerving. s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 11, 2013 Share #17 Posted June 11, 2013 ... Why did they stop using it, I can only guess. ... Perhaps because the increasing speed of film emulsions would result in a higher risk of fogging from radioactive lens elements. (Just a guess.) Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted June 12, 2013 Share #18 Posted June 12, 2013 Hello Everybody, I think if you check you will find that it was lens elements containing radioactive Thorium that were replaced. They were replaced in early collapsable 50mm Summicron lenses. Possibly also in some other lenses. The different refractive index & dispersion of the elements used to replace the Thorium glass originals meant there had to be a recomputation of the lenses involved. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted June 13, 2013 Share #19 Posted June 13, 2013 Thanks for reply!! So that means tele-elmarit(thin) more similar to tele-elmarit-m instead of fat TE? Does thin TE has better performance than fat TE? Should I use a 12575 hood for thin TE? Maybe that's the hood. It is the same hood that comes with the 90/4 Macro lens new. A bit long and a bit expensive, but greatly helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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