CV 15mm w/o viewfinder?

[Guest rivercityrocker]

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So here's the deal. I've been thinking about getting a wide-angle for the M8 after much thought I decided that although ideally I'd like to go as wide as I can I'd never be happy with the 12 as it would never match up quality-wise to my Nikon 14-24.

 

Another factor is the eternal viewfinder. With I 12mm I know that I'd have to have one no matter what. I don't really want an external viewfinder on my camera.

 

Anyway, so the M8 has 24mm lines. The 15mm is about 20mm equiv. So do you think it's possible I can use the extreme edges of the viewfinder outside of the 24 lines going right to the very edge to get a good approximation? If I stick my eyeball right up there and kind of roll it around I can see a good amount. Probably pretty close to 20mm.

 

So my question is, has anybody shot this way? Is it doable? It's not like the M8 framelines are super accurate anyway. So what do you think?

[pfhrased]

So my question is, has anybody shot this way? Is it doable? It's not like the M8 framelines are super accurate anyway. So what do you think?

 

The 24mm lines show you what the 24mm looks like on a crop already - ~31-32mm. You might find it to be a bit weird.

 

I found it more comfortable to use the voigtlander 15-35mm zooming finder for my cv 21/4 on the m8.2 .. but I wear glasses.

I did *sometimes* shoot without it - you can get a good idea by shooting, glancing at the rear screen, and recomposing. It's not ideal, but honestly neither is an external finder. (given focus and compose are through different views).

[Guest rivercityrocker]

Yeah, I guess I didn't consider the built-in crop for the rangefinder. An external VF is just another little piece that I would break or lose. Plus they're expensive. The idea is to keep the price down.

 

I decided that I can get another M8 and a wide-angle for less than the price of an M-E or M9. Given that pixel density is the same and the fact I don't really need 18MP I figured I could live with the one stop reduction in ISO performance, and have two bodies. One for wide and one for normal or short tele.

[erl]

I just did a test with my M8 and the 12mm CV to refresh my memory.

I found the 24mm auxilary finder is very close to the to 15mm on the M8, which allows for the crop factor. The 24mm framlines only show what a 24mm will cover on the M8.

[01af]

I don't really want an external viewfinder on my camera. [...] So what do you think?

I don't really think a rangefinder camera is for you.

[woorob]

I don't think this is a silly question at all. Many of us prefer not to use external paraphernalia such as viewfinders. With my M9, I've taken over 2,000 pictures with two different CV 15mm lenses, but rarely using the [very acceptable] Voigtlander finder. The very wide field of view means that everything you see with your eye through the camera's viewfinder (and then some) will end up in the picture. It's far from precise but works well for me. I've gotten some of my best pictures shooting this way. Now I have a 16-18-21 WATE but still shoot this way. The "Frankenfinder" has never been on the camera.

[jaapv]

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Basically, if you have a mental image of the angle of view of your lens, which comes with practice, you don't need an external viewfinder at all. Having said that, it does make life easier.

[Guest rivercityrocker]

I don't really think a rangefinder camera is for you.

 

I don't think you're in any position to judge whether or not a rangefinder camera is "for me".

 

I can see why people on other discussion boards hate on this forum. There's always some snotty a-hole that has to impose their stupid holier than thou attitude on people.

 

 

In any case, I bought rangefinder system as a compact alternative to my DSLR mostly for everyday shooting. Adding a bulbous viewfinder on top of my camera doesn't appeal to me. I want to use a rangefinder camera without an added accessory with a wide-angle lens so as to keep the camera as compact as I can yet still achieve an effect I like.

 

Not to mention that when I'm photographing a festival moving through crowds of 10's of thousands of people and being jammed into a photo pit with 30 or 40 other photographers with elbows, cameras, lenses, etc. flying around I have no doubt that it will be lost or broken.

 

So YES. A rangefinder IS for me. I use it as an adjunct with my other gear.

 

So before you start throwing your snarky remarks around, maybe stop to consider that other people have different shooting criteria than you do. Your narrow minded and unhelpful observations are not necessary. If you don't have anything constructive or helpful to add then move along.

[Guest rivercityrocker]

And thank you to those that posted helpful replies. I'm considering buying it based upon others observations that it can be done. I can always get a viewfinder later if I need to.

 

If I need 100% accuracy I can use a D800 and my Nikon 14-24mm. which would produce superior results if needed.

 

[01af]

I don't think you're in any position to judge whether or not a rangefinder camera is "for me".

That's why I didn't judge; I expressed an opinion. Sorry if you disagree so much that your composure gets lost.

 

If you want to shoot as wide as possible but don't want to use an external viewfinder then a rangefinder camera is not the ideal tool. As simple as that.

 

And oh, by the way—on the M9, I like the Voigtländer 12 mm better than the 15 mm.

[Guest rivercityrocker]

That's why I didn't judge; I expressed an opinion. Sorry if you disagree so much that your composure gets lost.

 

If you want to shoot as wide as possible but don't want to use an external viewfinder then a rangefinder camera is not the ideal tool. As simple as that.

 

And oh, by the way—on the M9, I like the Voigtländer 12 mm better than the 15 mm.

 

I didn't ask for your opinion on whether you thought a rangefinder camera was right for me. I didn't even say that I wanted to shoot as wide as possible. I made it pretty clear that I was considering the 15mm and not the 12 and I even stated why.

 

I asked whether anyone thought it was feasible to use a 15mm lens on an M8 without a viewfinder. Simple enough.

 

In any case, I'm not looking to argue with someone on the internet about my camera needs. I've been shooting for over 25 years. More than a decade full-time. I've written more than two dozen books and I've written numerous articles for top magazines. I think I have a good grasp on what gear is right for me.

 

Now when it comes to hardware that I don't have and have no way to get my hands on, yeah I'll ask a question.

[Ecar]

My experience is that with the M8 you can go down to 21mm and, with a little practice, use the rangefinders' window frames to get an accurate composition. By doing so, you loose the ability to see outside the framelines (not unlike seeing and composing with an SLR/DSLR), but that may be worth it as it saves your eye a trip to the external finder, not to mention the cost, extra bulk and hotshoe unavailable for flash. YMMV.

This, however, is virtually impossible to achieve below 21mm if you expect to compose with any accuracy: building a "mental image" of a 15mm FOV is definitely a stretch (at least for my personal visualizing abilities...) and, in any event, would force you to shoot with both eyes open or to remove your eye from the rangefinder at least once to look at the scene after focussing (you may of course zone-focus fairly easily given the huge DOF of a 15mm lens - but this is not ideal). Again, YMMV.

Bottom line: unless you intend to crop (but then, why use an ultra-wide in the first place?) or are after strong effects or have an entirely uncluttered and flat scene in front of you, you are not going to be particularly happy with the composition of your images if you decide to dispense with the use of an external finder. Just MHO...

[Guest rivercityrocker]

Well, It's probably going to be a little while before I get the lens anyway. I had a line on one on eBay today, but I got sniped at the last second.

 

I don't want to pay more than $400 so I'm not going to buy one new. The one I missed came at $405.

 

 

Thanks for the advice.

[ho_co]

Good luck to you getting the lens. I personally don't mind the added finder, but when he was a frequent contributor to this forum, Guy Mancuso said just what Jaap did above, namely that he didn't find the finder necessary with the 15mm.

[pfhrased]

Just shoot with nothing but one body and one lens for a month or so - you'll very quickly develop an eye for how the wide angle will look, without even trying.

 

I really miss my m8.2 - it was a brilliant camera.

 

Don't let the haters get you down.