Peter H Posted May 23, 2013 Share #101 Posted May 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) For quite a while, lots of "experts" were completely certain that Leica would release an EVIL camera at last year's Photokina, and told us in great detail exactly why they couldn't be wrong. And look how wrong they were! I'd name names, but I can't remember who I'm referring to. And I don't know whether there actually were lots of them or just one or two. And I don't know how certain any of them were. In fact I could be imagining the whole thing. But I feel at home now. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Hi Peter H, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
george + Posted May 23, 2013 Share #102 Posted May 23, 2013 … but as the “M” in “Leica M” stands for “Messsucher” (Rangefinder), removing the rangefinder would be sort of … well. Weird? Hrm. Weird? So what else is new? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Duane Pandorf Posted May 23, 2013 Share #103 Posted May 23, 2013 This will be a FF CMOS Leica M-E. This will slowly get them out of the CCD market. I don't think it will be a cropped sensor as the most popular FOV on a FF Leica is the 35mm. Leica doesn't make a comparable f/1.4 lens that meets that FOV on a cropped sensor. I don't see an AF option either. If they can't keep up with the M240, how are they to be able to make a selection of AF lenses to meet the demand? My bet is FF CMOS Leica M-E without live view and EVF option. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted May 23, 2013 Share #104 Posted May 23, 2013 One thing is absolutely certain. It'll take photos Most anyway. Some may be returned for sensor issues Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
theno23 Posted May 23, 2013 Share #105 Posted May 23, 2013 Yeah, I'd expect it to have AF - maybe APS-C, maybe 135. I think interchangeable lens is more likely. Would be interesting if it used M-mount, but with some extra connections to allow AF, so you could use MF M-mount lenses on it too. ETA: oh, and definitely no rangefinder. Will be EVF only. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 23, 2013 Share #106 Posted May 23, 2013 :confused:You mean like the non-sloppy AF on the RX1? .. The RX1 focus is extremely good and accurate It does get appreciably slower in low light when the aperture is wide open (as it focuses at the selected aperture) Despite what you have heard this is not the limiting factor of this camera unless you intended action sports photography with it! The limiting factor is the dismal packaging 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted May 23, 2013 Share #107 Posted May 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't know what you all are talking about: There was the "Jaguar" M6 - an M6-body with a "Jaguar" engraving. So the "Mini" M will be the M(240)-body with a "Mini" engraving. Your choice will be to have one like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/1963_MkI_Mini.jpg/250px-1963_MkI_Mini.jpg or that:eek:: MINI.de – Homepage I fear they won't fulfill my minor wish: http://www.themorrisminor.co.uk/minor.jpg 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 23, 2013 Share #108 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) This will be a FF CMOS Leica M-E. This will slowly get them out of the CCD market. I don't think it will be a cropped sensor as the most popular FOV on a FF Leica is the 35mm. Leica doesn't make a comparable f/1.4 lens that meets that FOV on a cropped sensor. I don't see an AF option either. If they can't keep up with the M240, how are they to be able to make a selection of AF lenses to meet the demand? My bet is FF CMOS Leica M-E without live view and EVF option. that camera sounds nice however it will be no point leaving out EVF as you get it for free it might harm M240 sales though in fact any Leica FF release (including the mini-M) would impact the M240 which is why my bet is 1.3x I loved this mockup: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 23, 2013 by colonel 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/205247-mini-m-merged-aka-x-vario/?do=findComment&comment=2328717'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 23, 2013 Share #109 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) If the box is to scale, it looks to small to hold a camera with a rangefinder. My guess would be an X2 type of camera that takes interchangable lenses - either AF or M. - and has a clip on EVF. Me too consider the box size a significant factor in the picture... but of course it can be purposedly misleading... : if it is in scale with the M I'd say that it ought to be FF.... and in this case I join the speculation that has no RF... btw, even if I don't follow which much care the other brands' announcements, it seems to me that a FF EVIL is not yet in the marketplace (the Sony has a fixed lens, right ?) : could be a right move by Leica, imho.... a 1,3 crop M8 style could also be a good solution, but I think that in marketing terms it is Full Frame the concept that allows a certain price tag... Edited May 23, 2013 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted May 23, 2013 Share #110 Posted May 23, 2013 if they really keep the iPod names like mini and nano i'm looking forward to seeing the m-shuffle Don't forget that Jonathan Ive was supposed to be designing an M. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted May 23, 2013 Share #111 Posted May 23, 2013 Leica has spent lots of money developing their FF CMOS. It would be smart to use the sensor they've already developed in the new camera. However, a FF camera with no rangefinder or just a rangefinder, either way, with the same sensor sold for $2k less than the M would cannibalize M sales. (But it might boost lens sales.) An APS-C camera that takes M lenses is a non-starter because there are already at least three good options out there that cost far less than what Leica could create, and if you can't afford the full frame, you probably can't afford the lenses either. That's why I think it's a fixed lens FF camera. You can attract those who want real Leica quality and can make a big one-time purchase but who can't afford the lenses anyway. The next question is, will it have video? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Duane Pandorf Posted May 23, 2013 Share #112 Posted May 23, 2013 The reason one would want the M240 over the mini M I think they will release and not take away sales from the M240 is the 240's ability to use Live view for ultra wide angle and long R lenses plus video. Leica removed the USB and frame selector on the M-E to justify selling it less than the M9. I see the same thinking in the new mini M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeTexas Posted May 23, 2013 Share #113 Posted May 23, 2013 I think the M-E existed just to get rid of leftover M9 stuff. They pulled all the extra parts off of it, so it was both cheaper to finish producing and less peripheral parts to re-order as they were trying to use up the sensors, etc. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted May 23, 2013 Share #114 Posted May 23, 2013 Leica has spent lots of money developing their FF CMOS. It would be smart to use the sensor they've already developed in the new camera. However, a FF camera with no rangefinder or just a rangefinder, either way, with the same sensor sold for $2k less than the M would cannibalize M sales. (But it might boost lens sales.) I think those who can't afford/justify the M might go for a XE-1 type eqivalent thus buying into Leica and ultimately the Leica lenses. Eventually, as is the way of GAS, they would rise to the M. Those with the M who wouldn't want to invest in a second M might consider the Mini. I don't think Leica will be worried about the impact of a full frame Mini on the M just as Fuji weren't when they introduced the XE1 following the XPro1. Pete 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 23, 2013 Share #115 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) My dream Mini = Half the size of the M/FF/RF/28mm APO f2.0/no clip-on EVF/Sony sensor/ISO dial/no AF/no movie mode/no base plate/easily pocketable without huge lens dimension. Edited May 23, 2013 by RickLeica Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalpowershot Posted May 23, 2013 Share #116 Posted May 23, 2013 There is already a crop camera (X2) so it has to be a FF camera, otherwose 1. why should sbd buy an X2?!? 2. why should sbd buy expensive M-lenses to use it only on a crop sensor?!? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted May 23, 2013 Share #117 Posted May 23, 2013 My guess - Cut the top of the M rangefinder off, clip on EVF, FF, M mount with the introduction of AF lenses for it. Maybe, the next M will be able to utilize these lenses. This would be about my best guess as well. Probably a body style with a nod to the classic M, with many of the same parts as the M240 (sensor, screen, processor, etc) but smaller. FF for sure - they need to compete with Sony and differentiate from Fuji - and heck they probably have thousands of new 240 sensors gathering dust as the gnomes carve brass M shells. $3.5-4K price range. Only one thing is certain between now and the 11th - the strap lugs will stay put even in a 50 megaton hydrogen explosion! And if they announce now and don't deliver for 6-9 months then consider whatever it is DOA (or a real hot seller like the X1/X2:rolleyes:). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 23, 2013 Share #118 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) Leica has spent lots of money developing their FF CMOS. It would be smart to use the sensor they've already developed in the new camera. However, a FF camera with no rangefinder or just a rangefinder, either way, with the same sensor sold for $2k less than the M would cannibalize M sales. (But it might boost lens sales.).... Personally, I don't think that 2k$ less than M would cannibalize significantly M sales : there are LOT of people that DO WANT the Rangefinder on a Leica, period : and those are the people (many of us included) that have used RF for years and have been accustomed to Leica prices for years : simply said, the traditional Leica market. 2-2,5 K$ less can be significant for people that feel the "Leica magic", but personally are not so interested in what means to use a OVF/RF, and probably can value very much an EVF that (by logic) will be much better than M240 accessory EVF. Edited May 23, 2013 by luigi bertolotti 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 23, 2013 Share #119 Posted May 23, 2013 I hope that they've decided to give the Mini a proper optical viewfinder, but I suspect it'll be another X clone. Don't forget that Leica have their PE partners to keep happy, and their ambitious market share targets to meet. Think mass Market appeal rather than niche in terms of where they'll be aiming this new product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 23, 2013 Share #120 Posted May 23, 2013 I have a really radical suggestion... shall we not allow ourselves to be manipulated by the teaser ads and just wait and see...? Regards, Bill Sent from another Galaxy 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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