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Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario


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For quite a while, lots of "experts" were completely certain that Leica would release an EVIL camera at last year's Photokina, and told us in great detail exactly why they couldn't be wrong. And look how wrong they were!

 

I'd name names, but I can't remember who I'm referring to. And I don't know whether there actually were lots of them or just one or two. And I don't know how certain any of them were. In fact I could be imagining the whole thing.

 

 

But I feel at home now.

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Guest Duane Pandorf

This will be a FF CMOS Leica M-E. This will slowly get them out of the CCD market. I don't think it will be a cropped sensor as the most popular FOV on a FF Leica is the 35mm. Leica doesn't make a comparable f/1.4 lens that meets that FOV on a cropped sensor.

 

I don't see an AF option either. If they can't keep up with the M240, how are they to be able to make a selection of AF lenses to meet the demand?

 

My bet is FF CMOS Leica M-E without live view and EVF option.

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Yeah, I'd expect it to have AF - maybe APS-C, maybe 135.

 

I think interchangeable lens is more likely.

 

Would be interesting if it used M-mount, but with some extra connections to allow AF, so you could use MF M-mount lenses on it too.

 

ETA: oh, and definitely no rangefinder. Will be EVF only.

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:confused:You mean like the non-sloppy AF on the RX1? ..

 

The RX1 focus is extremely good and accurate

It does get appreciably slower in low light when the aperture is wide open (as it focuses at the selected aperture)

Despite what you have heard this is not the limiting factor of this camera unless you intended action sports photography with it!

The limiting factor is the dismal packaging :(

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I don't know what you all are talking about:

 

There was the "Jaguar" M6 - an M6-body with a "Jaguar" engraving.

 

So the "Mini" M will be the M(240)-body with a "Mini" engraving.

 

Your choice will be to have one like this:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/1963_MkI_Mini.jpg/250px-1963_MkI_Mini.jpg

 

or that:eek::

MINI.de – Homepage

 

I fear they won't fulfill my minor wish::o

http://www.themorrisminor.co.uk/minor.jpg

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This will be a FF CMOS Leica M-E. This will slowly get them out of the CCD market. I don't think it will be a cropped sensor as the most popular FOV on a FF Leica is the 35mm. Leica doesn't make a comparable f/1.4 lens that meets that FOV on a cropped sensor.

 

I don't see an AF option either. If they can't keep up with the M240, how are they to be able to make a selection of AF lenses to meet the demand?

 

My bet is FF CMOS Leica M-E without live view and EVF option.

 

that camera sounds nice

however it will be no point leaving out EVF as you get it for free

it might harm M240 sales though

 

in fact any Leica FF release (including the mini-M) would impact the M240

which is why my bet is 1.3x

 

I loved this mockup:

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Edited by colonel
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If the box is to scale, it looks to small to hold a camera with a rangefinder. My guess would be an X2 type of camera that takes interchangable lenses - either AF or M. - and has a clip on EVF.

 

Me too consider the box size a significant factor in the picture... but of course it can be purposedly misleading... :o : if it is in scale with the M I'd say that it ought to be FF.... and in this case I join the speculation that has no RF... btw, even if I don't follow which much care the other brands' announcements, it seems to me that a FF EVIL is not yet in the marketplace (the Sony has a fixed lens, right ?) : could be a right move by Leica, imho.... a 1,3 crop M8 style could also be a good solution, but I think that in marketing terms it is Full Frame the concept that allows a certain price tag...

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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Leica has spent lots of money developing their FF CMOS. It would be smart to use the sensor they've already developed in the new camera.

 

However, a FF camera with no rangefinder or just a rangefinder, either way, with the same sensor sold for $2k less than the M would cannibalize M sales. (But it might boost lens sales.)

 

An APS-C camera that takes M lenses is a non-starter because there are already at least three good options out there that cost far less than what Leica could create, and if you can't afford the full frame, you probably can't afford the lenses either.

 

That's why I think it's a fixed lens FF camera. You can attract those who want real Leica quality and can make a big one-time purchase but who can't afford the lenses anyway.

 

The next question is, will it have video?

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Guest Duane Pandorf

The reason one would want the M240 over the mini M I think they will release and not take away sales from the M240 is the 240's ability to use Live view for ultra wide angle and long R lenses plus video.

 

Leica removed the USB and frame selector on the M-E to justify selling it less than the M9. I see the same thinking in the new mini M.

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I think the M-E existed just to get rid of leftover M9 stuff. They pulled all the extra parts off of it, so it was both cheaper to finish producing and less peripheral parts to re-order as they were trying to use up the sensors, etc.

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Leica has spent lots of money developing their FF CMOS. It would be smart to use the sensor they've already developed in the new camera.

 

However, a FF camera with no rangefinder or just a rangefinder, either way, with the same sensor sold for $2k less than the M would cannibalize M sales. (But it might boost lens sales.)

 

I think those who can't afford/justify the M might go for a XE-1 type eqivalent thus buying into Leica and ultimately the Leica lenses. Eventually, as is the way of GAS, they would rise to the M. Those with the M who wouldn't want to invest in a second M might consider the Mini. I don't think Leica will be worried about the impact of a full frame Mini on the M just as Fuji weren't when they introduced the XE1 following the XPro1.

Pete

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My dream Mini = Half the size of the M/FF/RF/28mm APO f2.0/no clip-on EVF/Sony sensor/ISO dial/no AF/no movie mode/no base plate/easily pocketable without huge lens dimension. :)

Edited by RickLeica
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My guess - Cut the top of the M rangefinder off, clip on EVF, FF, M mount with the introduction of AF lenses for it. Maybe, the next M will be able to utilize these lenses.

 

This would be about my best guess as well. Probably a body style with a nod to the classic M, with many of the same parts as the M240 (sensor, screen, processor, etc) but smaller. FF for sure - they need to compete with Sony and differentiate from Fuji - and heck they probably have thousands of new 240 sensors gathering dust as the gnomes carve brass M shells. $3.5-4K price range.

 

Only one thing is certain between now and the 11th - the strap lugs will stay put even in a 50 megaton hydrogen explosion! And if they announce now and don't deliver for 6-9 months then consider whatever it is DOA (or a real hot seller like the X1/X2:rolleyes:).

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Leica has spent lots of money developing their FF CMOS. It would be smart to use the sensor they've already developed in the new camera.

 

However, a FF camera with no rangefinder or just a rangefinder, either way, with the same sensor sold for $2k less than the M would cannibalize M sales. (But it might boost lens sales.)....

 

 

Personally, I don't think that 2k$ less than M would cannibalize significantly M sales : there are LOT of people that DO WANT the Rangefinder on a Leica, period : and those are the people (many of us included) that have used RF for years and have been accustomed to Leica prices for years : simply said, the traditional Leica market. 2-2,5 K$ less can be significant for people that feel the "Leica magic", but personally are not so interested in what means to use a OVF/RF, and probably can value very much an EVF that (by logic) will be much better than M240 accessory EVF.

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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I hope that they've decided to give the Mini a proper optical viewfinder, but I suspect it'll be another X clone.

 

Don't forget that Leica have their PE partners to keep happy, and their ambitious market share targets to meet. Think mass Market appeal rather than niche in terms of where they'll be aiming this new product.

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