StephenPatterson Posted May 23, 2013 Share #41 Posted May 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) My guess - Cut the top of the M rangefinder off, clip on EVF, FF, M mount with the introduction of AF lenses for it. Maybe, the next M will be able to utilize these lenses. That would be a very bold move. An entirely new series of lenses. If true let's hope Leica does a better job rolling them out than they have with the S series CS lenses. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Hi StephenPatterson, Take a look here Mini M? [MERGED] AKA X-Vario. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted May 23, 2013 Share #42 Posted May 23, 2013 A small camera (e.g. M6 size or smaller) with 1.3 crop, CMOS sensor and RF with reduced functionality (e.g. stills only) would be fine for me. That would be a decent product but I doubt they would market it as a "Mini M". It really sounds to me like a digital version of the MD, pretty much as Rick describes but without AF (I think AF is coming but not yet). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX400 Posted May 23, 2013 Share #43 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) My guess is something's like the Ricoh GXR with M mount. I sincerely hope you are not right, even as I think you probably are right! Imagine all the bulk required by an M lens along with substandard composing and focus confirmation. Bleh! I hope they will solve at least one legitimate engineering challenge and add some capability nothing else has. Edited May 23, 2013 by TX400 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1JB Posted May 23, 2013 Share #44 Posted May 23, 2013 So maybe Leica wants to or is being forced to compete with Sony, Fuji, et. al. in the MILC category. What would be nice to see is a direct competitor to the X-Pro1: a new autofocus body with a new range of lenses, and perhaps an adapter to take advantage of existing M lenses. Either that or the M-E is getting canned and being replaced with something more... current. I agree. My guess is that it's the latter though, the M-E is being replaced with the cmos sensor in the M. I'd love to be disappointed but I think Leica is stuck in quick sand with the M lineup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted May 23, 2013 Share #45 Posted May 23, 2013 I am sure it will be some sort of cropped sensor that can take M lenses on its mount (or with a free adaptor). The key questions are: 1. Will it introduce autofocus 2. What will the crop be, e.g. 1.3, 1.5 or 2 ? 3. Will it have a range finder ? 4. Will it have OVF or EVF A small camera (e.g. M6 size or smaller) with 1.3 crop, CMOS sensor and RF with reduced functionality (e.g. stills only) would be fine for me. Leica could also introduce a M-Video at a later stage, just adapted to video makers if it thought there would be a market And here's a readily available, lighter cheaper version Fuji created earlier that takes superb Fuji lenses or M Mount lenses via adaptor. Honestly, if it's not full frame serious questions need to be asked. Pete 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2013 Share #46 Posted May 23, 2013 If it is called an "M" it will almost certainly have a rangefinder. My tip is an APS-H small DRF, the "digital CL" that so many have been asking for. Maybe autofocus as an auxilary focussing system with a limited range of dedicated lenses. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krooj Posted May 23, 2013 Share #47 Posted May 23, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I agree. My guess is that it's the latter though, the M-E is being replaced with the cmos sensor in the M. I'd love to be disappointed but I think Leica is stuck in quick sand with the M lineup. It really makes sense - I expect that the sensor fabricator isn't keen on keeping a legacy item around for a single low-volume buyer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted May 23, 2013 Share #48 Posted May 23, 2013 here's what i found on Overgaard's site based on Stefan Daniel's comments about this camera in 2010...apparently it's been in the works for a LONG time. "A Leica mini-M seem to be under development and will - according to Stefan Daniel at a speech back in September 2010- not be ready for Photokina 2012... So we are talking later than that. But what we do know is that they are aiming at a mirrorles camera (the Leica M has always been mirrorless, but we're probably talking CMOS sensors that will enabe live view and thus focus confirmation). This camerea will also contain the R-solution which means that it will be able to take R lenses and offer focus confirmation for these." Yes, except the second part of the talk is about the Leica M Type 240. So what we did learn back then was that "A Leica mini-M seem to be under development and will - according to Stefan Daniel at a speech back in September 2010- not be ready for Photokina 2012... So we are talking later than that." We now know it will be June 11, 2013. I have edited the page to clarify that and my speculations as to what a Mini-M could be is part of the "What If?" page: http://www.overgaard.dk/leica-M11-digital-rangefinder-camera-page-Leica-M10-Monochrome-Digital-Rangefinder-and-other-What-If-Issues.html 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX400 Posted May 23, 2013 Share #49 Posted May 23, 2013 I agree. My guess is that it's the latter though, the M-E is being replaced with the cmos sensor in the M. I'd love to be disappointed but I think Leica is stuck in quick sand with the M lineup. I like the quicksand metaphor. M lenses are established in a few aspects that drive footprint and cost, not to mention high engineering challenges and integration costs with lenses that don't interact much with the body. Props to Leica for keeping mechanical lenses alive. The tactile experience and feedback are still unmatched by any electric lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted May 23, 2013 Share #50 Posted May 23, 2013 It needs to be full frame given that Sony will be producing a full frame NEX or similar within 12 months . Given that there some amazing new Zeiss primes available for the Sony, then that combination will produce stunning quality files at below Leica prices . Canon are dead in the water Fuji have led the way and Panasonic have announced a new model this morning if you look on the micro 4/3 websites, that's potentially a remake of the LC1 , apparently with a tilting built in EVF etc. That said, they've suggested it's NOT a re-worked Panasonic . Really interesting to see what they come up with though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2013 Share #51 Posted May 23, 2013 It won't compete with the NEX, as it will be a rangefinder, not an EVIL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 23, 2013 Share #52 Posted May 23, 2013 If it is called an "M" it will almost certainly have a rangefinder. I wouldn't be so sure. Leica are unlikely to have qualms about leveraging the "M" 'brand' to products that are not M by the traditional definition. Besides, the current marketing doesn't name the product; it simply describes it as a Mini M and part of a family which includes the X2 (Micro M) and D-lux (Nano M). 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 23, 2013 Share #53 Posted May 23, 2013 Honestly, if it's not full frame serious questions need to be asked. Pete I don't think it needs to be FF. However if its cropped at 1.5 or less and it has no RF it will have serious problems competing with Fuji and Sony. I wouldn't buy it over my X-E1 any day. However, if it is 1.3 and has a RF you can count me in. That is serious differentiation, and I love RF MF. All other MF, even peaking, is unexciting, unprecise and unrewarding. If it is called an "M" it will almost certainly have a rangefinder. My tip is an APS-H small DRF, the "digital CL" that so many have been asking for.Maybe autofocus as an auxilary focussing system with a limited range of dedicated lenses. I would hope so please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
krooj Posted May 23, 2013 Share #54 Posted May 23, 2013 It needs to be full frame given that Sony will be producing a full frame NEX or similar within 12 months . Given that there some amazing new Zeiss primes available for the Sony, then that combination will produce stunning quality files at below Leica prices . Canon are dead in the water Fuji have led the way and Panasonic have announced a new model this morning if you look on the micro 4/3 websites, that's potentially a remake of the LC1 , apparently with a tilting built in EVF etc. That said, they've suggested it's NOT a re-worked Panasonic . Really interesting to see what they come up with though. I keep going back to the NEX vs. M argument, and I just don't see it. They are very, very different cameras targeting different audiences. A mere glance at the camera UI tells you the intended audience. While Zeiss is producing excellent AF lenses for this system, I think there is a threshold (in price) beyond which no typical NEX user would ever consider a Zeiss lens. Right now, this threshold seems to be around $1k. Fuji also understands this, and it bears out through their body and lens build and pricing. The only clear danger to Leica's rangefinder market (in my mind) is Fuji with the successor to the X-Pro. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2013 Share #55 Posted May 23, 2013 I wouldn't be so sure. Leica are unlikely to have qualms about leveraging the "M" 'brand' to products that are not M by the traditional definition. Besides, the current marketing doesn't name the product; it simply describes it as a Mini M and part of a family which includes the X2 (Micro M) and D-lux (Nano M). I'm not convinced . Specifically the M designation is fairly sacred in Solms, as their historical USP. If they would want to deviate, I am sure they would go for another letter. My money is on a DCL. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted May 23, 2013 Share #56 Posted May 23, 2013 Very interesting. I don't think I would be interested in it if it was a crop sensor. But I suppose I should wait before putting my name on a list for the M 240 until after June 11 now... The odds of you getting an M 240 before June 11 after putting your name on a list now is too small to calculate. So, I wouldn't worry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted May 23, 2013 Share #57 Posted May 23, 2013 I'm not convinced . Specifically the M designation is fairly sacred in Solms... How sacred can it be when Solms refers to the D-Lux 6 as the "Nano M"??? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted May 23, 2013 Share #58 Posted May 23, 2013 How sacred can it be when Solms refers to the D-Lux 6 as the "Nano M"??? that could be marketing irony Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted May 23, 2013 Share #59 Posted May 23, 2013 If it is called an "M" it will almost certainly have a rangefinder. Not necessarily. An M bayonet mount would be enough to qualify for an 'M' name. My tip is an APS-H small DRF, the "digital CL" that so many have been asking for. Definitely not. This one was discontinued three years ago. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 23, 2013 Share #60 Posted May 23, 2013 Time will tell (We will not...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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