Long lens advice needed

[RobertJRB]

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I found out I do miss a long lens after borrowing a RF 85mm canon.

 

 

Currently I have a M9P with the 18/3.8 SE, 28/2 ASPH, 35/2 ASPH and the 50/2.

 

From all the lenses I have I like the 28 the most. I love its character and vignetting.

 

 

So there are some things I like in a long lens.

 

1: Moderate speed from f/2.8 minimal

2: Character like the 28/2 cron (or similar), at least not a kinda dull lens.

3: High magnification/ close focus (much higher than the 50mm with its 1:11,5)

 

I found several lenses which are potential candidates.

 

 

I tried both 75 and 90 summarit in the shop but as u might understand, thats inside a shop which means high iso's and not really great subjects. So I find them hard to judge.

The test pictures I took didn't really do it for me. I didn't had the wow feel I had with the 28 cron, or 50 lux.

Prices are great, as is the 46mm filter size.

Don't really like the minimal focus distance or magnification.

The 90mm/2.5 is okey with 1:8.9, the 75mm/2.5 is not with 1:9.9

 

The 75 and 90 AA have a great appeal to me, especially the 75 because of its close focus and 1:7 magnification (best of the leica's expect the slower 90/4 makro). The 90mm is further off with 1:9.

But both are pretty steep in price and it would mean I have to sell my 35 cron ASPH to fund one.

 

90 macro I tried and its a really really good lens optically. But I found it a bit boring to use. Also to slow.

Also to expensive (3300 euro)

 

90/2 cron non asph. Looks good for the prices (about 800 euro). Unfortunately not able to try at the shop so can't really get a grip on how it performs.

 

90/2.8 elmarit-m. Looks great with its smaller size and 46mm filters. Read everywere its a real great performer, but I find them to high in price at the moment (1700 euro)

 

 

 

 

My question:

- Does anyone use a 75 together with a 50, and how does it work out? I'm afraid I will skip one and keep using the other instead of using both.

 

- Does anyone have both 75 and 90 AA. How big is the difference on minimal focus and aspect ratio? Is it a significant difference in favor of the 75 AA, or is the difference pretty small? If u have an example it would be great.

 

- How is the 90 cron pre AA?

 

- When thinking about the 28 cron ASPH, which of the lenses will fit it best (not in focallenth, but in drawingstyle/ rendering)

 

- and last, what did u pick and why?

 

Thank u in advance!!

Edited May 8, 2013 by RobertJRB

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[lct]

You have a full frame M i guess so if you want to keep your 50/2, a 75 would me too close for me so i would take a 90 w/o hesitation.

Below 1500 EUR (not 1700) the latest Elmarit 90/2.8 is probably the one which matches best the modern rendition of lenses like the 28/2 aside from the favorite but more expensive 90/2 apo and 90/4 macro.

You should find a good one around 1000/1200 EUR.

995 EUR here: Meister Camera Berlin: Elmarit-M 2,8/90mm

[adan]

I agree with lct - the most recent (but no longer in production) 90 Elmarit-M will be the closest match to a 28 Summicron. Snappy contrast and edge definition, color, etc. (For my taste, both almost verge on the "harsh" - but if you like the 28 'cron, you'll like the 90 Elmarit.)

 

The 75 Summarit captures a lot of the image quality of the 90 Elmarit, but as you say, has limited closeup potential.

 

The 90 Summicron pre-ASPH is very different from the APO/ASPH lenses - much less "snap", especially at f/2. A "bokeh" lens in a whole different vein.

 

Personally, I haven't used a 50mm lens regularly since 1978 (except on the M8, where it was a "70") - but if I did, I'd definitely skip a 75 as "too similar."

[philipus]

I have the Elmarit-M and love it because of its optical performace, which I find superb on film, and its size and handling. It is very sharp.

 

I recently posted an image in The view through older glass thread. I don't know if it is of any assistance but here's a 100% crop from that (which was on lowly film so with an M9 you can imagine the clarity you'd get in a similar situation). The full scan is here.

 

Cheers

Philip

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[250swb]

I also agree the 90mm Elmarit M is the one to look for.

 

I actually find its character and rendition very smooth and rich while retaining good contrast, and wouldn't call it harsh at all. It is also very sharp and not very big, so a good addition to the camera bag. Definitely one of Leica's very best lenses in my opinion.

 

Steve

[Ecar]

Robert,

 

 

To your specific questions:

• Depends on what you pack for the day out. I never take a 50 and a 75 together. 75 goes with a 35 and 90 goes with a 50. In your particular case, you seem to like mostly wides. If you feel the need to go longer, then you should go all the way and get a 90; you may feel that 75 is not long enough.
  
• Have tried both 75 and 90 AA in the past and found them too clinical for my taste. In addition I tried them alongside the Summarits and found the price difference hard to justify to my eyes - this is particularly true of the 75, which results at the same aperture were for me virtually undistinguishable from those of its AA bigger brother.
  
• The pre-ASPH Summicron 90 has a two-faced character: softer and gentler than the AA up to f/4, then as sharp as the AA (again, to my eyes) as you stop down.
  
• Agree with some of the responses above: the Elmarit-M 90 is the closest match to the rendering of the Summicron 28 ASPH.
  
• I have too many lenses... If I had to keep only one in the 75-90 range, it would be the Suerested).
  

Hope this helps.mmilux 75, but that would be somewhat irrational. The most rational choice would be the Elmarit-M 90, a great all-rounder.

Edited May 9, 2013 by jaapv
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[Ecar]

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Jaap,

It wasn't a sales offer - just trying to help. But I understand your edit.

However, when you edit a post, try at least to do it in such a way that it still makes logical sense (ok, I know, it's a holiday...)

[efreed2754]

Robert

 

Now have 50 (1.4 and 2.0), 75 (1.4 and 2.0), and 90 Elmarit.

 

Use both 50 and 75 at times depending on situation. While I agree with others 90 Elmarit is best bet, a case can be made for 75 based on your needs. I love the 75 and see it as an enhanced 50 while 90 is really a telephoto.

 

So if you do shoot wides and prefer to narrow the view, a 75 is wonderful. However if shooting landscapes or other distance situations, find the 90 and 135 are appropriate.

 

Hey with digital, a case can be made to use PP to narrow the view which works unless printing very large prints.

 

Ed

[farnz]

... If I had to keep only one in the 75-90 range, it would be the Suerested). ...

What is the Suerested? A typo, an autocorrection error or a very rare lens?

 

Pete.

[UliWer]

...

 

My question:

- Does anyone use a 75 together with a 50, and how does it work out? I'm afraid I will skip one and keep using the other instead of using both.

 

- Does anyone have both 75 and 90 AA. How big is the difference on minimal focus and aspect ratio? Is it a significant difference in favor of the 75 AA, or is the difference pretty small? If u have an example it would be great.

 

- How is the 90 cron pre AA?

 

- When thinking about the 28 cron ASPH, which of the lenses will fit it best (not in focallenth, but in drawingstyle/ rendering)

 

- and last, what did u pick and why?

 

Thank u in advance!!

 

1. Even though 50 and 75mm seem close there is a definite difference. With 75mm you look much narrower, which might not be always an advantage. If you get used to the difference you may enjoy it.

 

2. Mininmal focus of the 75mm Summicron may get you closer than most other M-lenses (only the 90mm Makro-Elmar will beat it, but I agree with you that it is too expensive). Though the 75mm Summicon is hard to focus at close distances and big apertures. You may experience some frustrations with this lense.

 

3.Don't know the pre-aspherical 90mm Summicron.

 

4. This is very subjetive, but I think the 28mm Summicon, the 50mm Summilux asph and the 75mm Summicron apo. asph. may give you the ideal combination of Leica Lenses. All have a certain - very subjective - warmth, which will match together very well.The 90mm AA is different. You might call it more cool, perhaps similar to the 50mm Elmar-M, or the 35mm Summilux asph (pre FLE). This does not mean, that the 90 mm Summicron AA is worse. Just different.

 

5. When I started with Leica more than 10 years ago, the 35/50/90 combination seemed evident. 75mm and 28mm came later. I enjoy all of them (and 135mm), and won't quit with any of them.

[RobertJRB]

Thanks all! Great information to help me decide.

 

The 90 elmarit-m seems to pop up every time. It seems like a really good choice, especially since its a lot cheaper than the cron AA.

 

Only thing I have to find out, the little voice in my head keeps telling me the 75 AA is the lens I would like most. This mainly because of its close focus which I miss most with the 50 cron.

I would not shoot a lot of portraits with it, mainly architecture.

 

For a impression, see my website:

http://www.robertbijl.com

 

under photograhpy.

 

Indeed 75 and 50 look really close together. To close maybe. At the other side I use both 35 and 28 together and find them different enough to take them both with me.

 

I tried to use the 75 frame (with my 50mm) today and switch to the 90 frame often to find out which suits me best. But it hard to tell.

So I think its just a case of trying them.

 

I found out the store nearby has both 75 and 90 AA's in stock so I will try them together to see how big the difference between 1:7 (75AA) and 1:9 (90 elmarit/ cron/ summarit) really is.

And also to see which suits me best.

[pgk]

Of the following lenses; 75 Summicron, 75mm Summarit, 90 Summicron (pre-asph) and 90 Elmarit-M I have owned/tried, I have settled on the 90 Elmarit-M. It is an extremely rounded lens and about the only fault that I can find with it is a nuance of chroma in the corners on the M9 (easily and effectively cured in the raw conversion). The 90 Summicron was not quite as good (and slightly soft wide open), the 75 Summicron whilst excellent was not substantially better than the Elmarit-M, and the 75 Summarit I found to be another excellent lens - but the Elmarit-M handles better IMHO.

 

I now own the 90 Elmarit-M as my 'long' M lens having stupidly sold my first and having finally had to replace it after trying all the above. I have not tried the 90 Summicron asph,. but the handling characteristics of the Elmarit-M are to me so much better than the 90 Summicron, that I did not bother to try one.

 

All that said, choosing between recent Leica M 75/90 lenses requires cigarette paper to put between them None are anything other than excellent - so its really down to personal preferences in handling and focal length. I've made my choice:).

[Ecar]

What is the Suerested? A typo, an autocorrection error or a very rare lens?

 

Pete.

 

You should ask Jaap - he must know...

[RoySmith]

I just bought a mint 90mm Elmarit-M manufactured in 2005 on eBay for US $1,200. It is not 6-Bit coded but is perfect otherwise. I guess I got lucky with no other bidders.

[Tonki-M]

another vote for the 90 Elmarit-M. what an excellent 'little' lens. i got mine with 6-bit at around 1400 USD last year.

[philipus]

As a film shooter I have toyed with the idea to purchase the 90 pre-asph because of the wider max aperture, but having read Puts's write-up on this lens vs the Elmarit-M vs the 90AA, I have hesitated. I did buy my Elmarit-M for 500€ so I may still get the pre-asph just to have access to the f2 when I need it. However, the Elmarit-M is such fantastic performer that one really can be happy with only that lens at 90mm.

[Bill Allsopp]

I have the 90mm Summarit (as well as the 35 and 50) and am delighted with it, super sharp but bought for the price in the first instance. I see no need to change it, perfect for me.

[MarkP]

4. This is very subjetive, but I think the 28mm Summicon, the 50mm Summilux asph and the 75mm Summicron apo. asph. may give you the ideal combination of Leica Lenses. All have a certain - very subjective - warmth, which will match together very well.

 

Agreed

 

btw: I think that the 21 SEM also fits into this group

You're underestimating the 90 Macro-Elmar

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/228593-praise-4-0-90-macro-elmar.html#post2012405

Edited May 10, 2013 by MarkP

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[algrove]

Robert-I own each of the lenses you have questions about except the Summarits. They are all lovely in their own right.

 

My only question what do you mean by saying the 90 Macro is boring?

 

This is the smallest (height) Leica lens I own and it is E39. I often group lenses for outings based on filter and focal length. 46mm is a good size too=90 Elmarit-M. 75=49 odd size filter for Leica. 55 is large (E60 too for other lenses) too and not many other Leica lenses use this size.

 

Filters and their sizes get more important for me with the MM.

[RobertJRB]

Robert-I own each of the lenses you have questions about except the Summarits. They are all lovely in their own right.

 

My only question what do you mean by saying the 90 Macro is boring?

 

This is the smallest (height) Leica lens I own and it is E39. I often group lenses for outings based on filter and focal length. 46mm is a good size too=90 Elmarit-M. 75=49 odd size filter for Leica. 55 is large (E60 too for other lenses) too and not many other Leica lenses use this size.

 

Filters and their sizes get more important for me with the MM.

 

What I found boring, I tried the lens for a short time at the shop because it really appealed to me with its close focus, small size and 39mm filter size.

 

But looking at the pictures at home not one of the pictures I took really spoke to me. Its almost as if the lens is to perfect. To clean.

Also the smaller aperture of f/4 didn't help with this.

 

 

The same with the 90 summarit. The pictures I took using it didn't really speak to me. While I really want to like it. The 50 summarit I liked a lot.

 

To compare, after trying the 28 cron in the shop I was sold when I opened the pictures on my computer. Same with the 50 cron/ 50 lux and 50 nocti (unfortunately far above budget so I went with the cron).

 

A clean and "perfect" lens isn't bad. I really like the new 18, 21 and 24 (super) elmars a lot while they don't have that outspoken character of some others.

 

But with a long lens I think I really like to have some more outspoken character.

 

 

I really hate talking about character in a lens, but this is the only way to explain. Basically its only about if the pictures speak to me or not.