tonyNZ Posted April 14, 2013 Share #1 Posted April 14, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have recently been in Bangladesh and noticed quite a lot of dust on the sensor, although I used the rocket blower it didn't seem to be very effective, so decided to send the camera in for a service and a sensor clean. I received my camera last week with a note that there were "marks/scratches on the CCD" and that it would be replaced FOC when the parts arrived. Below is a 100% crop showing what looks to me like dust particles in the same place as where I had noticed them a couple of months before I sent in the camera. It makes me wonder if the service agent even attempted to clean the sensor? The camera is 16 months old and never had the sensor cleaned before, and I can't imagine that that these marks can be anything else other than dust or oil marks. Do you think it could it fact be something more sinister than dust? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/202614-dust-on-the-sensor-or-something-else/?do=findComment&comment=2298551'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 14, 2013 Posted April 14, 2013 Hi tonyNZ, Take a look here Dust on the sensor or something else?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted April 14, 2013 Share #2 Posted April 14, 2013 It looks like dust, but there is a hell of a lot of it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyNZ Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted April 14, 2013 It looks like dust, but there is a hell of a lot of it... Indeed, that's what I thought and put it down to the incredible amount of dust in Bangladesh, and the fact that I wasn't too careful when changing lenses. I just feel suspicious about the fact that the service agent maintains that these are marks/scratches and wants to replace the sensor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted April 14, 2013 Share #4 Posted April 14, 2013 Where did you send the camera for a sensor clean? It typically looks like a spot of concentrated fine grained dust. This can typically happen if you use a bulb blower that is dusty itself. You will end up with a concentrated area of small fine grained dust. If the bulb blowers are stored in dusty environments they will end up being "dust canons" over time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dierk Posted April 14, 2013 Share #5 Posted April 14, 2013 Did you do the control shot with closed aperture? If it changes with diferent aperures, it could give more info about the reason. Dierk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyNZ Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted April 14, 2013 Did you do the control shot with closed aperture? If it changes with diferent aperures, it could give more info about the reason.Dierk This image was taken at f8 and the one where I originally noticed the marks was taken at f16. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyNZ Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted April 14, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Where did you send the camera for a sensor clean?It typically looks like a spot of concentrated fine grained dust. It went to the Leica service agent in Australia. It is quite possible that the blower was lying around gathering dust - I have not been too careful where I store it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted April 14, 2013 Share #8 Posted April 14, 2013 It went to the Leica service agent in Australia. It is quite possible that the blower was lying around gathering dust - I have not been too careful where I store it I have experienced the same a few times myself. I recently started storing my rocket blower in a zip-lock bag when I don't use it to avoid dust build-up inside it. Did you use the dust blower after the sensor was cleaned by Leica though? If you didn't they have not done a proper job at all and I would contact them about it and either get my money back and get it cleaned elsewhere or request that they perform an express clean on the sensor again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 14, 2013 Share #9 Posted April 14, 2013 I have changed from a very elderly Giotto Rocket (?10+ years old) to a Koh's Hepa-Jet II filtered blower. I seem to be getting my sensors cleaner quicker with this. Apparently it is important to keep this in its Zip-Loc bag. For the M240, I have also bought the sticky stick Eye-Lead that Leica themselves use. The sensor dust detector is very sensitive and finds dust or other material that I cannot see on the most careful examination with an illuminated loupe. I could not get it clean with Rocket + Arctic Butterfly + wet cleans but the Eye Lead succeeded, with just a final wet clean to remove any smears. Wilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyNZ Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted April 15, 2013 Did you use the dust blower after the sensor was cleaned by Leica though? If you didn't they have not done a proper job at all and I would contact them about it and either get my money back and get it cleaned elsewhere or request that they perform an express clean on the sensor again. No, I haven't even looked at the sensor. They claim the sensor is damaged and want to replace the sensor (under warranty) but it looks to me as though the marks are merely dust. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted April 15, 2013 Share #11 Posted April 15, 2013 And I thought dust on the sensor was bad enough in New Zealand because it's so windy! The main priority is cleaning it. Have you tried anything else before sending it off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted April 15, 2013 Share #12 Posted April 15, 2013 No, I haven't even looked at the sensor. They claim the sensor is damaged and want to replace the sensor (under warranty) but it looks to me as though the marks are merely dust. Cleaning it would be a short cut to the answer. Stevce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikasmg Posted April 15, 2013 Share #13 Posted April 15, 2013 It looks like dust and very much like a problem I had when traveling in Western Australia. After cleaning it it was fine though the M9 sensor seems to attract more dust than Panasonic 4/3s I have used or the Sony Nex 7. A few month ago the problem arose again and this time I took it to Leica (Singapore) for cleaning. This time they said the sensor needed replacement but in addition to the dust there was a vertical line of dead pixels as well so that may have prompted the replacement. They have had my camera for about 4 months, ostensibly because of a shortage of sensors. I've now been told to expect it back in the next two weeks. - Vikas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted April 15, 2013 Share #14 Posted April 15, 2013 ?....... They claim the sensor is damaged and want to replace the sensor (under warranty)..... I think they might well be right. This appears to me to be some kind of spray contamination. The majority of the marks are concentrated towards the middle of your sensor, more or less uniform in size and shape with a definite halo and are not simply dust particles from careless lens changing. As Leica have offered to replace your sensor foc, you don't have much to lose by having a go at cleaning it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 15, 2013 Share #15 Posted April 15, 2013 I think the M9's sensor is prone to condensation between the cover glass and the sensor itself. I am reasonably confident that is what killed my sensor. The end results looked not unlike the picture Tony posted. With an illuminated loupe, you could see the marks, which looked like fogging, under the cover glass. This happened a few days after using the camera in very humid (probably close to 100%) and hot conditions (40º C) in a rain forest. As the camera came with me out of an air-conditioned car, it was considerably cooler than the external ambient temperature and had a fair bit of condensation externally. I had torn the Zip-Loc bag I usually have with me in those conditions, to allow the camera to warm up in the dry. Hopefully the M with its weather sealing will not suffer this issue. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 15, 2013 Share #16 Posted April 15, 2013 I don't think that weather sealing will prevent internal condensation, unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasS Posted April 15, 2013 Share #17 Posted April 15, 2013 I have the same problem with my M9P. According to my dealer it is not dust. More a problem with condensation between the cover glass and sensor. It comes from a 'leaking' cover glass and sensor (manufacturer quality problem?). My dealer knows this problem by the M9P only (not M9). I'm not the first customer by service agenda in Switzerland. The sensor must be replaced. I have to wait, as Solms is lagging behind. My dealer has lent me a spare M9 in the meantime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 15, 2013 Share #18 Posted April 15, 2013 I don't think that weather sealing will prevent internal condensation, unfortunately. Maybe with a bit of luck, the cover glass is better sealed to the new CMOS sensor, so that condensation does not get between the two. Wilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted April 15, 2013 Share #19 Posted April 15, 2013 It could also be oil spots, and maybe the dealer is unfamiliar with the issue and therefore thinks that the sensor is damaged? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyNZ Posted April 15, 2013 Author Share #20 Posted April 15, 2013 Thanks guys - I reckon it must be a result of condensation. I remember in December whilst in Singapore/Indonesia going from airconditioned comfort to the outdoors and finding condensation on the lens and viewfinder of the camera. This happened on several occasions. Looking back at my images they were relatively free from any marks up until December where there seems to be a proliferation of these marks. I used a D800 during the same period and there are no marks at all on those images, despite the camera being subject to the same atmospheric conditions - perhaps that is down to the weather sealing. I shall raise this with my dealer and find out what the service agent thinks of this hypothesis. In the meantime it is rather concerning that whenever the camera is subject to these conditions the sensor might need replacing! or is it a case of poor quality control as Thomas suggests? I will try and clean the sensor and see what difference (if any) that will make. Does anyone know whether the weather sealing on the M is effective against condensation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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