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Going digital, which combo? M+50/2 or M-E+50/1.4ASPH??


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I'm ready to step into digital and want to purchase a FF body plus a 50mm lens, either a current generation Summicron or Summilux ASPH. I've read all the threads comparing the new M to the M9/M-E, as well as all the lens comparison threads.

 

My budget allows either for new M + the Cron or the M-E + the Summilux; both of these combos cost approximately the same. I prefer to buy new, as I'd like to have the warranty.

 

I am not really interested in all the new features of the M, the primary attraction for me is better ISO performance/dynamic range and overall improved user experience (battery life/display/framelines/etc.). In terms of the lenses, I realize these two are completely different animals so it's kind of an apples-to-oranges discussion.

 

Nevertheless, given these two choices, which way would you go? The latest-and-greatest Leica body with a very capable Cron? Or the mighty Summilux with last-generation-technology M-E?

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Dear Kashpar,

I had a M9 and now I have a M240.

M240 makes the difference under any point of view.

ME (which is a M9) is a very competent camera, is based on a technology dating back to 2006.

In electronic this is a geological era.

M240 is the state of the art.

It's a better camera.

I'm not thinking to high iso or live view.

It's a better camera also at ISO 200 looking trough the finder (which had been improved too)

 

Lenses: I own and have owned and tested all modern 50 lenses by Leica and some from the fifties.

Summilux is one of the finest lenses ever made, but Summicron is very close.

 

But as you are a smart guy, you can ask your dealer to borrow you a Summarit 50.

If you test it side by side with a Summicron you see that Summarit is close to Summicron with a better bokeh.

This is a matter of taste.

My choice was on Summarit.

 

After using your M240 you will be addicted to Leica.

I bet you will find the budget for a Summilux Asph 50, a 35 FLE, a 90 ........

Hahaha, welcome into the Leica Addicted Forum :D

 

Ciao

Franco

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I have the M9 and it's excellent. The ME is basically a slightly less specced version. But tend to agree that with digital technology that newer is better. so I would concur the M is probably the way to go. The Summicron is a first class lens and f/2 is really pretty fast. Besides, you can take advantage of better ISO performance, negating the difference with the optics.

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Guest borge

I have learned that you purchase the lenses that you need or want then the camera.

Digital cameras can be considered as "disposable" and the worst type of investment one can make. Lenses, however, stay with you.

 

But as others say - the Summicron f/2 is a great lens. But don't purchase it as a temporary solution if you really want the Summilux down the road...

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Guest tanks
...

Digital cameras can be considered as "disposable" and the worst type of investment one can make. Lenses, however, stay with you.

...

 

I concur, somewhat. I bought my 35 cron and 90 Apo cron when I bought my M6 a while back. Still have them, and using them years later.

 

That being said, M-E is old technology and will lose a lot of its value the day after you buy it. I'd get the M 240, and if you decide to get the Summilux some time later you will get most of your money back from the Summicron sale.

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Guest borge
I concur, somewhat. I bought my 35 cron and 90 Apo cron when I bought my M6 a while back. Still have them, and using them years later.

 

That being said, M-E is old technology and will lose a lot of its value the day after you buy it. I'd get the M 240, and if you decide to get the Summilux some time later you will get most of your money back from the Summicron sale.

 

I agree. I would also purchase a used Summicron. A Summicronf f/2 is very easy to find on the 2nd hand market at a decent cost. And it could be sold down the road with a lot less loss of value. There are many mint Summicron f/2's on the used market so don't purchase a new one.

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.... you can ask your dealer to borrow you a Summarit 50.

If you test it side by side with a Summicron you see that Summarit is close to Summicron with a better bokeh.

This is a matter of taste.

My choice was on Summarit.

.....

 

Let me just chime in about the Summarit: it is excellent! Get that one instead (difference between 2.0 and 2.5 is more than offset by the new M´s better high ISO performance. And, even if you get the Lux 50 later, you´ll want to keep the Summarit as a smaller and lighter alternative. Also, the screwed-on lenshood on the Summarit gives far better protection than the collapsible ones on the Lux or Summicron. So, if I know it would be a bit rough, the Summarit has better chances of survival....:rolleyes:

 

This is exactly what I did myself: got the Summarit a year or so ago, and now a brand new Lux 50 is waiting for me at my dealer´s....;)

 

And, I do plan to keep that Summarit!

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I agree. I would also purchase a used Summicron. A Summicronf f/2 is very easy to find on the 2nd hand market at a decent cost. And it could be sold down the road with a lot less loss of value. There are many mint Summicron f/2's on the used market so don't purchase a new one.

 

This is good advice.

Leica lenses last a lifetime and hold their value. Digital bodies are essentially disposable over a 3-5Yr window, so either buy a new M or a good used M9, but not a new ME. Personally on a fixed budget I would get a Summilux and a used M9P with some warranty remaining in case something turns up when you get it. There are a lot of used M9/M9Ps coming on the market at good prices.

Why the summilux? It just renders beautifully, with soft bokeh and a 3D effect. Its one of the absolute classic Leica lenses, and Leica is all about the lenses...

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I concur, somewhat. I bought my 35 cron and 90 Apo cron when I bought my M6 a while back. Still have them, and using them years later.

 

That being said, M-E is old technology and will lose a lot of its value the day after you buy it. I'd get the M 240, and if you decide to get the Summilux some time later you will get most of your money back from the Summicron sale.

 

The M240 will also loose a lot of value after u buy it. Like every digital camera.

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Guest Duane Pandorf
I'm ready to step into digital and want to purchase a FF body plus a 50mm lens, either a current generation Summicron or Summilux ASPH. I've read all the threads comparing the new M to the M9/M-E, as well as all the lens comparison threads.

 

My budget allows either for new M + the Cron or the M-E + the Summilux; both of these combos cost approximately the same. I prefer to buy new, as I'd like to have the warranty.

 

I am not really interested in all the new features of the M, the primary attraction for me is better ISO performance/dynamic range and overall improved user experience (battery life/display/framelines/etc.). In terms of the lenses, I realize these two are completely different animals so it's kind of an apples-to-oranges discussion.

 

Nevertheless, given these two choices, which way would you go? The latest-and-greatest Leica body with a very capable Cron? Or the mighty Summilux with last-generation-technology M-E?

 

Before I answer, what time frame do you have in mind to purchase either the new M or the M-E? If it is in the very near term you're going to have a difficult time finding a new M as there are many on a long waiting list still waiting.

 

So if you're not in a hurry and really want the M I'd call around and find out how soon you could get one. On the other hand if you're interested in shooting with a Leica M right now I'd would buy a new M-E to get a full warranty. I don't know where you live but if there happened to be a Leica dealer near I would spend some time handling a rangefinder before I bought a new one or a used one so you understand what you're getting into.

 

I went the M-E route as this too is my first venture into a Leica M. I did not want to wait and the difference in money was spent on a lens.

 

Yes you can find a used M9 for less than a new M-E but you don't always know what you're getting. Now if you live near a dealer and they have used M9s for sale then they may offer you some type of additional support if you were to buy a used model from them.

 

As to which lens, my personal preference is to have at least one fast lens in the bag. If the 50mm will be your primary shooting lens then it would be a no brainer and the 50 Lux would be it. I went the used route and found a pre-ASPH 50mm that was in mint condition for almost half the price of a new Lux but there are differences between the two.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hello, just wanted to bring this thread to conclusion with a brief update.

 

In the end, I decided to go with a gently-used black paint M9-P and a brand new Summilux 50 ASPH. I've had the camera for two weeks and I am absolutely delighted with it. Coming from a M7, the M9-P feels wonderfully familiar and does everything I would ever need it to do. Also, the decision to invest the extra cash in the wonderful piece of Summilux glass, as opposed to a M240 body, feels like a right one.

 

Thanks to everybody for their feedback!

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Guest Marc G.

the M9/M-E might be 1 generation behind the M but this does not show IQ-wise. like Duane I took the M-E path to add to my M6ttl. I already had the 50 Summilux asph which really shines on digital.

 

if I was to pick a Leica setup at an imaginary dealer who stocked up on anything currently produced it would be a M-E and a 50 1.4 asph, no doubt. basically the same arguments you give. I have no need for the new features.

 

another thing which is very important but apparently non-existent to tech-freaks and night owls: you are shooting your Leica at base ISO for probably 90% of the time, 98% below ISO 1000. if improved ISO performance for those 2% is important to you I would wait till I can afford the M and the 50 1.4 asph as it is simply the best 50 for so many Leica users out there (and superior to the 50 f/2 pre-APO in so many ways: bokeh, slightly in sharpness, wider aperture, focus tab)

 

edit: oh my god... I should really read all the answers before answering, sorry for that :D

 

anyway: congratulations on your decision!!! enjoy

Edited by Marc G.
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Just to endorse your choice, I swapped from a 50/2 Summicron to a 50/1.4 Summilux Asph three months back. I have always been a little sceptical of small perceived differences in the quality of lenses, but in this case I am amazed and delighted at the performance of the new lens. In your shoes I would make the same choice.

 

(That said, I have not used the new M yet. That is always possible in the future should it prove necessary -- and if I can afford it!)

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I've owned both the Summicron and Summilux for many years, and in film I've mostly opted from the Summicron, unless I needed the extra stop of speed. And that because of ergonomic reasons -- the Summilux is such a big lens. Funny though, now that I'm cutting down my rangefinder collection (Leicaflex rules!!), the Summilux will probably be the last lens I sell, if I sell it, because it is really special, notably in color.

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Hello, just wanted to bring this thread to conclusion with a brief update.

 

In the end, I decided to go with a gently-used black paint M9-P and a brand new Summilux 50 ASPH. I've had the camera for two weeks and I am absolutely delighted with it. Coming from a M7, the M9-P feels wonderfully familiar and does everything I would ever need it to do. Also, the decision to invest the extra cash in the wonderful piece of Summilux glass, as opposed to a M240 body, feels like a right one.

 

Thanks to everybody for their feedback!

 

Great choice - I did the same thing, but in silver chrome (as it was what turned up in the local marketplace). The lux is just lovely.

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Congratulations on your choice!

 

Personally, I had the same dilemma about two month ago and decided to go with the M-E + 50 Summilux ASPH and I could not be happier.

 

I felt like taking the 50 Lux over the new M would be, for me, more rewarding.

 

p.s When I finalized my purchase, the M9-P was still available as new but the price difference was unfortunately way to high. The M-E looks good too :)

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Lux 1.4 is the best 1.4 lens I ever used. Nothing else is close. It is also heavy with glass. Summicron is very nice also and by 2.8 the performance is the same.

 

Are you one of those in the current fad of thin plane of focus? Not I. 2.8 collapsible second version is normally on my M9 or the 50 rigid from the 1950`s. At F 4.0 it is the same as all the other 50`s which I also own.

 

A Summarit is all you need for most pictures, any focal length. It will lighten your burden considerably.

 

Stretch the budget and buy what you want rather than buy and sell. It all depends on your picture style. Presumably you have have some style now that you are considering the Leica camera class.

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Since you're just starting with M's, I go small & wide for now to see if it works for you

 

All used

M9 (very comparable IQ to the 240 - acceptable results up to 1600 ISO with Photoshop)

50mm 2.0 (my favorite lens) + 28mm 2.0. Voigtlander will do for now - throw in a 75mm too!

 

PS: I had the 'lux 1.4 for a long time but rarely used it - very heavy and the tiny DOF was needed very rarely. Got a good price for it. Don't get hung up on 'best' - go for usability

 

I'm a 30+ year M user. Showing artist and professional photographer

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