Tim Ashley M(240) Review

[Rick]

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Here is the link to Tim's review:Tim Ashley Photography | The M (Typ 240) - Leica's new baby reviewed

 

On first quick read I believe we see eye to eye on the new M, the D800 and the RX1. This is a fairly balanced review. If, you are expecting Steve Huff hyperbole then I'd skip this one (Hi Steve - hyperbole can be good too).

 

Thanks for the review Tim.

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[k-hawinkler]

Tim already posted a reference to his review http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2367099-post2.html

[luigi bertolotti]

very good, deep and un-trivial , thanks for the link

[macjonny1]

Tim already posted a reference to his review http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2367099-post2.html

 

yes but it's buried in another post. Thanks Rick for the link in another thread!

 

Surprised he hasn't found any of the Zeiss primes satisfying on the D800E. I find my 21mm Zeiss ZF.2 quite remarkable. The RX1 is a very nice camera I picked one up in a trade and the sensor lens combo is quite remarkable. Probably the best 35mm f/2 setup one can currently get. AF is a bit slow in the dark but faster than the Fuji XE1 I tried. Image quality on all these is outstanding. I find myself liking my M9/MM combo unless I need to shoot high ISO color shots

[UliWer]

I think Leica will like the part about "the notable better rangefinder mechanism"...

[jffielde]

Thanks for the link. Looks like the shadow banding goes lower into the ISO range with each new review. First at 6400, then at 4000 (at least both were push settings), then "as low as 3200" (highest native setting), now occasionally showing up at 2000.

 

I love the increased dynamic range, but it's not doing much good if the banding in the shadows would prevent bringing them up. In fact, I've seen more than one reference to darkening the shadows to hide the M240 banding, which goes in the opposite direction from where you want to be.

 

At low ISOs, though, I haven't heard of any issues at all.

[Rick]

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If, you are expecting Steve Huff hyperbole then I'd skip this one (Hi Steve - hyperbole can be good too).

 

 

Hyperbole was not exactly what I meant - please substitute enthusiastic.

[thighslapper]

quote:

 

'Would I add the M 240 permanently to my armoury, possibly replacing the RX-1 and even the D800E?

 

I think probably (but not certainly) not. I think I have found, since shooting the M 240, that I prefer the files on the RX-1 and the D800E and that the Zeiss lens on the RX-1 is in many ways better than the 35 Lux FLE.'

 

I don't love my D800E, for example, in fact it irritates the hell out of me in some ways.

 

I do love my RX-1 (though it too has faults) but I dislike its lack of flexibility regarding focal length'

 

.........:rolleyes:

[scott kirkpatrick]

You're quite pleased with the color balance coming out with Capture One 7.1.1, preferring it slightly over LR 4.4, yet Jono Slack finds that the M(240) tends to excessive warmth, and my experiments using CO 7.1.1, rendering in Adobe RGB or sRGB, were way too red. I was using some of Jono's old pre-production files, as I don't have an M yet, but others with the new units and production firmware report the same result. Are you doing some things that are different?

 

scott

[markowich]

i agree, no real love for the D800 but awe of the technical achievement of nikon. i do like the files though, a lot.

here is leica's inherent problem: as long as the M was a pure rangefinder many issues were forgiven by users. now leica tried to design a 'modern' camera and in my view failed badly in that respect. nevertheless, the M is still a very good rangefinder camera, certainly the best out there...---))).

peter

 

 

 

quote:

 

'Would I add the M 240 permanently to my armoury, possibly replacing the RX-1 and even the D800E?

 

I think probably (but not certainly) not. I think I have found, since shooting the M 240, that I prefer the files on the RX-1 and the D800E and that the Zeiss lens on the RX-1 is in many ways better than the 35 Lux FLE.'

 

I don't love my D800E, for example, in fact it irritates the hell out of me in some ways.

 

I do love my RX-1 (though it too has faults) but I dislike its lack of flexibility regarding focal length'

 

.........:rolleyes:

[dwbell]

Well sweet mother that has to be just about the most balanced, well reasoned, objective piece I've ever seen written about a digital Leica M!

 

Bravo! From a fellow Cat 3 user.

[tashley]

Thanks for all the kind comments, folks - I am glad people are finding it useful and not too controversial!

[tashley]

You're quite pleased with the color balance coming out with Capture One 7.1.1, preferring it slightly over LR 4.4, yet Jono Slack finds that the M(240) tends to excessive warmth, and my experiments using CO 7.1.1, rendering in Adobe RGB or sRGB, were way too red. I was using some of Jono's old pre-production files, as I don't have an M yet, but others with the new units and production firmware report the same result. Are you doing some things that are different?

 

scott

 

Scott, I find that all new cameras, especially when support is provisional or generic in RAW developers, have colour that I just 'live with' until full support is in place - so I am reasonably happy but then I do often tweak a fair bit and I did mention that the problem areas are the reds.

 

This link leads to three versions of the same shot, which does include a skin tone. The first is developed in Capture One, the second is developed in LR with the Embedded profile, and the third is with a profile I made using the Colour Passport from X-Rite, applied in Lightroom. It is subtly different from the LR Embedded and a little better on the skin I think - all were WB from an accurate WB card shot.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Nice gallery. I found two shots of the fellow sitting in afternoon sunlight outside an Irish pub. I presume one is CO and the other is LR (a little more flush). Your colors look pretty realistic, reds on the walls not orange, which would be less likely in Britain, and a bit subdued. Are you rendering in ProPhoto (general purpose) or in web-style sRGB? I was surprised to see that the new "generic M(240) DNG" input profile in 7.1.1 also leads to a default output rendering profile of "use embedded camera profile," that is very high gamut and produces rather flat colors on screen. Changing to the sRGB output profile produces results that match what I see when editing in CO 7.1.1, but they sometimes require tweaking.

 

scott

[Tonki-M]

really enjoyed the review! better than some of the reviews out there

[Zenny]

Thank you very much for the great review; absolutely interesting and helpful.

 

Zenny

[thompsonkirk]

Maybe the two threads about Tim's review could be combined and made sticky? IMO it's the best and most balanced appraisal of the 240 to appear.

 

I'd just commented on the other thread, over here:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/278976-whats-verdict-m.html

 

Kirk

Edited April 6, 2013 by thompsonkirk

[gpwhite]

Tim, thank you for a very thoughtful review full of useful information for shooters and without the burden of too much technical detail. I really like your compositions very much... Hmm, the corners of your 18mm shots look awfully good to me (a lens I love); the images are a bit less than FF, right? It looks like you do not shoot 24 much, but I would be surprised if you found the 24 Elmar less than totally satisfying (given that you appreciate its wider sibling). My comment relates to your disappointment with wide angles, and I presume sensitivity to the frustrations of field curvature.

 

I also write to kibitz with you on a couple of points-- I love your conclusion that the M240 offers the opportunity to use Leica M glass (surely the best, IMHO) without the usual Leica body handicap. This is so true. I often wonder how the organizational hierarchy plays out in Solms... the lens group under Peter Karbe probably has their choice of lagers at the cafeteria, while the body people get water?

 

You write about getting back to your beloved M lenses. Give the 50 AA a shot too. My hope is that this incredible lens foretells the direction of the Leica lens group to surpass the challenge of higher and higher resolution sensors. So Leica bodies will again lag Leica lenses. It is hard to understand why a group that can engineer such intriguing designs as the fancy wide-angle lens shades on newer Leica M lenses can make such a glaring and limiting error as the front button/exposure compensation design. Maybe the lens engineers and body engineers do really sit in separate areas in the Solms cafeteria and tradition prohibits them from engaging in product roundtables?

 

I look forward to your further review of the M240.

 

Peter

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[k-hawinkler]

Maybe the two threads about Tim's review could be combined and made sticky? IMO it's the best and most balanced appraisal of the 240 to appear.

 

Kirk

 

 

+1

 

I agree. Many thanks to Tim!

[tashley]

Nice gallery. I found two shots of the fellow sitting in afternoon sunlight outside an Irish pub. I presume one is CO and the other is LR (a little more flush). Your colors look pretty realistic, reds on the walls not orange, which would be less likely in Britain, and a bit subdued. Are you rendering in ProPhoto (general purpose) or in web-style sRGB? I was surprised to see that the new "generic M(240) DNG" input profile in 7.1.1 also leads to a default output rendering profile of "use embedded camera profile," that is very high gamut and produces rather flat colors on screen. Changing to the sRGB output profile produces results that match what I see when editing in CO 7.1.1, but they sometimes require tweaking.

 

scott

 

Scott, there are three versions of the shot and they are captioned as to how they were profiled and developed. The versions I have posted are in Prophoto.

 

EDIT: I have just added a fourth, developed in LR 4.4 with the Adobe Standard profile

Edited April 6, 2013 by tashley