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The lucky few that have their M...what is the verdict?

 

Happy with the camera? Any issues?

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

Lucky to have got my M, unlucky to not have had the time to use it too much but the little that I have I thing it's wonderful. Most of this has been said by others in the forum before:

Favourite Likes:

- Viewfinder and new framing lines.

- Live view, specially when using the EVF 2. Focus aids during live view.

- Quietest shutter of the three Digital Ms

- Longer lasting battery

 

Main dislikes:

- Inability to reconfigure movie bottom.

- Loss of frame change lever for optical view finder.

- Marginally heavier.

 

 

- Vikas

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Got mine this week, a few thoughts so far:

 

- Love the new shutter, its noticeably quieter and lag seems to be lower. It was the first thing I noticed

- Hate the new way to change exposure compensation, need a firmware update so that a button press isn't required first

- High ISO performance is good, though I do see some structured vertical and horizontal noise at ISO 6400, but LR seems to clean it up reasonably well

- Dynamic range is a huge improvement

- Live view based focussing for non-landscape work will suck, will be sticking to the rangefinder except for tripod based work

- The corners on many lenses seem to perform better (don't know if its better profiles or something else)

- The little nub for the thumb grip is no replacement for a "thumbs up" but I'm not sure I want to give up my flash shoe and option to attach an EVF for a thumbs up yet

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Got mine this week, a few thoughts so far:

 

- Hate the new way to change exposure compensation, need a firmware update so that a button press isn't required first

 

This thing needs to be addressed. I'm blown away by the camera so far (take it FWIW, it's my first Leica) except for the unsuable EV compensation...

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You might find this review I just published (click here) useful... but it may be a lot more information than you're looking for...

 

;-)

 

 

Hi Tim,

 

Many thanks.

It's good that you include comparing with other cameras.

I also like that you don't pull any punches.

You have seemed to pull together in one place info that so far has been spread out.

Pretty objective review IMHO.

Thanks again.

 

BTW, did you ever get your D800/E repaired to your satisfaction?

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OP, it's a keeper for me as I have plenty of R glass to keep me out of trouble for years. I mostly agree the tashley in his review-both the pluses and the minuses.

 

I also love the RX1. I also like my 5D3. I am selling my last M9P and will be getting an M backup someday. I love my Monochrom the most of all as it reminds me of shooting for the school newspaper some 45 years ago, but without the chemical smells, rolling the Tr-X film, making proof sheets for the editors, spending long hours in the darkroom instead of with my girlfriend and on and on. Looking back though, I would not change a thing if I had to do it all over again.

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You might find this review I just published (click here) useful... but it may be a lot more information than you're looking for...

 

Great review! I wanted to highlight one particular paragraph which I think speaks to Leica's great accomplishment with this camera:

 

"In other words Leica has managed, on its first outing with a CMOS sensor and using a manufacturer which is not widely known, and having to work around the very specific micro-lens requirements of the M mount, come up with the third best sensor ever tested, in its MP class. And to beat every Canon camera ever tested. Now that is pretty damned good."
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Great review! I wanted to highlight one particular paragraph which I think speaks to Leica's great accomplishment with this camera:

 

Yes, but is it USD 7000 good. Particularly when compared with the USD 2700 RX1 with superior sensor and exquisite lens inlcuded in the package.

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yes to some it is... perhaps not to you. but the answer is YES in a broad sense. RX-1 sounds awesome but one lens only sounds a drag... to me. If they made an RFD m mount camera for 4k we could have another conversation...

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Yes, but is it USD 7000 good. Particularly when compared with the USD 2700 RX1 with superior sensor and exquisite lens inlcuded in the package.

 

Can you focus the RX1 using a rangefinder? Can you put legacy Leica (or Zeiss) lenses on it? For that matter, can you change lenses at all? If the RX1 used interchangeable lenses, and Zeiss had a stable of superb lenses to go with it, then your comparison might make some sense. But it doesn't.

 

So, in answer to your question, yes, I think it is worth an extra $4300 to be able to use just about any Leica lens ever made (including the superb Noctilux and the new 50 APO Summicron) and focus using a classic rangefinder mechanism. Not to mention the Leica build quality. (I have owned a Sony digital camera, and I can attest that the build quality is nothing to write home about).

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My hunch is that the Sony is only so great because the lens is specifically built for the camera. I bet you anything that the processing is finely tuned to correct any shortcomings the lens might have at any given aperture. This would be a whole different ballgame with an interchangeable lens camera.

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Yes, but is it USD 7000 good. Particularly when compared with the USD 2700 RX1 with superior sensor and exquisite lens inlcuded in the package.

 

a glorified point and shoot is not a rangefinder...and should not be compared to one when talking about the camera as a whole.

 

while RX1 may seem more bang-for-buck than the Leica M, i'm sure RX100 kicks RX1 in the rear in that department also.

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When people make RX-1 comparisons, they may mean only that the outlay for the improvement of the M240 over the M9 doesn't yet make sense, money-wise or – more importantly – image-wise. With regard to the rendition of color, the M240 seems a work-in-progress. Tim's wonderful review is illustrative but non-judgmental about its color palette. But his photo of painted boats offers the extreme case of what reins in my 240 lust.

 

The 240, in so many of the images I've seen, emphasizes gaudy primary colors and reduces the subtlety of tonal transitions. Some say this can be fixed with a firmware upgrade, and I hope so. Some say it can be corrected in Photoshop, but I don't want to start from a sensor and firmware that need major second-guessing.

 

As I see it now, the 240 asks me to trade the fine tonal transitions of the M9 for the its higher ISOs, and that's not a reasonable either-or choice. I can wait for both. I hope a firmware upgrade appears before my name comes up on my dealer's delivery list. Only then can I make a judgment based on what IMO matters most: image quality. And if the answer were negative – that I still didn't like the color palette and don't want to keep re-working it in Photoshop – I'd wait for an M250.

 

I 'need,' or anyway use, two camera bodies, and I sold one of my M9s in anticipation of the new model. Recently I've been thinking about the RX-1 and the Fuji 100S, or more likely another M9, as a temporary secondary camera until Leica can produce a better-controlled color palette from the new sensor.

 

I wouldn't claim an RX-1 or a 100S was equal to the M240; I'm using them only to make comparisons of value and image quality while I see how the M240 or its successors develop.

 

Kirk

Edited by thompsonkirk
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When people make RX-1 comparisons, they may mean only that the outlay for the improvement of the M240 over the M9 doesn't yet make sense, money-wise or – more importantly – image-wise. With regard to the rendition of color, the M240 seems a work-in-progress. Tim's wonderful review is illustrative but non-judgmental about its color palette. But his photo of painted boats offers the extreme case of what reins in my 240 lust.

 

The 240, in so many of the images I've seen, emphasizes gaudy primary colors and reduces the subtlety of tonal transitions. Some say this can be fixed with a firmware upgrade, and I hope so. Some say it can be corrected in Photoshop, but I don't want to start from a sensor and firmware that need major second-guessing.

Kirk

 

Kirk, I have uploaded a new version of that file with the latest Adobe Standard profile - the first one you saw had Embedded. The new version has lens distortion adjustments but otherwise no tweaks at all whereas the first version had a lot of 'slider action' action going on so I would be wary about judging colour from it!

 

p1520453422-5.jpg

 

Link to gallery with that and the previous version

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OK, I've read all your posts, but who owns an M, an M9P, and a RX-1 and maybe a 5D3 and/or 800? If you do, only then can you speak with any authority when comparing M and RX-1 files, not to mention the other cameras cited. Remember is all you see are S--tRGB images on the internet.

 

Tim Ashley speaks with authority in my book.

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You might find this review I just published (click here) useful... but it may be a lot more information than you're looking for...

 

;-)

 

 

tim,

excellent review. it verbalizes my experience with the M much better than i ever could.

today i had another day of M shooting in a challenging environment (a city in saudi arabia) and i came back with a lot of frustrations, mainly caused by the ergonomic nightmares of the camera, all described in your review. after a while trying (stupidly again) LV and the EV i just used the RF. due to the bright sun light and the permanently changing conditions i had to use the awkward non-properly working +/- mechanism often which resulted in many under/overexposed shots. maybe my finger skills?

a few hours ago i started to compare my files to D800 files (taken in parallel today by someone whose photographic skills i trust very much) and.....they beat the M files in resolution (obviously), micro-contrast, dynamic range (even at base iso it seems, very challenging shooting conditions though) and let us not mention iso >= 1200.....just no comparison. the only issue where the M files beat the D800 files is corners of wide angle shots.....

i shall (try to) return the M to the dealer, it is just not worthwhile (for me) and get the MM instead.

i am very disappointed by leica engineering and by those M-style induced/excused compromises.

as an analogy in the automobile world take a look at the porsche 911. it is also somewhat constrained by design and rear engine positioning but nevertheless porsche has managed to recreate it in the 991 series as a super-modern and super-functional sports car which faithfully carries the 911 DNA. contrarily to what porsche did with the 911 it seems to me that the M240 is more backward than forward looking from the design and engineering viewpoints.

all the best, peter

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Can you focus the RX1 using a rangefinder? Can you put legacy Leica (or Zeiss) lenses on it? For that matter, can you change lenses at all? If the RX1 used interchangeable lenses, and Zeiss had a stable of superb lenses to go with it, then your comparison might make some sense. But it doesn't.

 

So, in answer to your question, yes, I think it is worth an extra $4300 to be able to use just about any Leica lens ever made (including the superb Noctilux and the new 50 APO Summicron) and focus using a classic rangefinder mechanism. Not to mention the Leica build quality. (I have owned a Sony digital camera, and I can attest that the build quality is nothing to write home about).

 

Any one can set out they're own, very limiting, specific parameters for comparison to skew the results to their favour. It's no less valid either way. I could add "does it have a Red Leica dot centrally located above the lens axis" to further push the result away from even the M9.

 

Point is, people's comparisons are valid to them. Not to you, maybe not to me, but that's not arguable, and no one is right, or wrong. Why must we keep doing it in every thread? It's pointless.

 

I compare "smaller than DSLR" cameras irrespective of price. For me the X100s is winning, and I have two M9's gathering dust. It's a "camera", not a Leica, nor Rangefinder, just smaller than DSLR with great IQ. I prefer OVF, must not be MF, if EVF goes the next step I can see myself changing that point of view too.

 

If another persons requirements are "must be a Leica M240, no discussion", that's fine too. Who is anyone else to say otherwise? "But it doesn't have AI Servo and 12fps!" She doesn't care, nor should she.

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i am very disappointed by leica engineering and by those M-style induced/excused compromises.

 

My I remind everyone that Leica is a very small company compared to Nikon, and that the mighty Nikon was lagging behind Canon for many years when the first 5D hit the market.

Leica is taking mighty strides in developing a product we have all been clamoring for and it may be a while before it is completely mature. This might mean even another product cycle, but first of all let's remember that the M beat Canon in the DxO results, which is a mighty task, and also that I myself would not even dream of dragging around a camera as big as a D800 ever again.

 

I switched to Leica digital when the M8 first came out and I had been dragging a 5D with a backpack full of lenses, and a tiny little man purse with an MP and a 35lux aspherical through the Hawaiian wilderness. I sold all the SLR gear and never looked back, no matter what the image quality temptations may have been. The M8 was "good enough" and as long as Leica M cameras are getting even better, I will be happy about it.

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