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Hi All,

 

Without wanting to promote too heated a debate, I am thinking of buying either an M9 or Monochrom. At the moment pretty well all my photography is in black and white film. I do have a Digilux 1 and when we're away my partner shoots colour prints (digital) for the album.

 

On our last trip I was using Ilford PanF. At 50 asa I was able to make best use of the lenses for selective focussing and plasticity in the image. Am I correct in thinking that with the Monochrom I'd have to resort to ND filters? Also, can the effects of coloured filters be replicated or would I carry on using them as now?

 

One main reason for going digital is to make life easier, without processing and printing etc. although I'd keep my film cameras for when the film desire came over me! I'd also like to carry on using my collection of older lenses.

 

If my first love is B&W, is the Mono a better buy than the M9? From what I've read, I think I'd prefer the M9 to an M even if they were available!

 

Susie

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Hi All' date='

 

Without wanting to promote too heated a debate, I am thinking of buying either an M9 or Monochrom. At the moment pretty well all my photography is in black and white film. I do have a Digilux 1 and when we're away my partner shoots colour prints (digital) for the album.

 

On our last trip I was using Ilford PanF. At 50 asa I was able to make best use of the lenses for selective focussing and plasticity in the image. Am I correct in thinking that with the Monochrom I'd have to resort to ND filters? Also, can the effects of coloured filters be replicated or would I carry on using them as now?

 

One main reason for going digital is to make life easier, without processing and printing etc. although I'd keep my film cameras for when the film desire came over me! I'd also like to carry on using my collection of older lenses.

 

If my first love is B&W, is the Mono a better buy than the M9? From what I've read, I think I'd prefer the M9 to an M even if they were available!

 

Susie[/quote']

 

Susie,

 

If B&W is your "thing" then the Leica M Monochrom is your (digital) tool.. and pretty much a no-brainer. Better sharpness, higher resolution, wider dynamic range and much better high ISO performance than the M9 and likely even the new M.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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What heat are are you pointing at?

It is quite clear: if you prefer an M9 over an M and you have a mostly black&white history than the MM is your choice. No MM owner here around has shown disappointments, they are all very enthousiastic, including me.

Edited by otto.f
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The MM continues to amaze me.. I haven't had photographic fun like this in a long time. Have only taken 3 or 4 M9 photos in several months; they simply needed to be in color.

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The MM continues to amaze me.. I haven't had photographic fun like this in a long time. Have only taken 3 or 4 M9 photos in several months; they simply needed to be in color.

 

+1

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I have an M9 and a MM.

Since getting the MM, I find I tend to use the M9 in color with the fast lenses and ND filters for the focus differentiations shots.

The MM I use more for high ISO or for high sharpness with smaller apertures.

 

With the M9 a 3 stop ND filter is right on the edge for f/1 of f/1.4 in direct sunlight.

For the MM the same ND plus color filter will get you to around the same place.

The color filter choice is like film - cannot be done in post on the MM.

 

The M.240 might be better thanks to live view framing especially if you frame close up to assist in blurring the background. I always struggle with framing using the 21/1.4 close up full open.

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Various threads cover these issues. This one, for instance, discusses filter use with the MM. The search box will bring up lots more.

 

For black and white, I prefer the M8.2 (or M8) to the M9, as do various other members.

 

But, these are all quality tools, and a lot comes down to your own needs and preferences, including overall workflow methods and printing requirements.

 

I suggest that you consider renting to compare and make up your own mind; there are places in the US to do so, but I don't know about the UK.

 

Jeff

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I am fortunate enough to have both the M9 and the Monochrom. They are both great cameras. Just like shooting film, the Monochrom's appeal is that you are actually working in black and white and have to think that way. It's files are an added bonus as they have great latitude. I prefer to use filters, and produce a B&W file and not have to worry about conversion from RGB. But others will be quite happy with that workflow, and indeed once you have some experience lovely B&W files can be produced that way as well. It's a matter of taste and inclination, as with all these decisions.

 

If you can tolerate being without colour, then the MM is for you. But as its quite an outlay, and digital cameras don't hold their value like the film Ms of the past, you need to be confident you only want to do B&W, unless of course you can afford to pick up two used ones! The M9 itself is a great camera and always will be in my view. With the advent of the M, there a some great second hand deals around.

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If your love is B+W, MM is the way to go. I let go of my M9 after having had my MM since I did not even have the desire to touch it and seeing it there depreciating everyday was not a good feeling. I may buy another M9 for color when the price has gone down to about $2,500-$3,000, not unreasonable within the year with more new M's out... Filterwise, I have been using a yellow filter with all lenses, except for my Nocti which I like to shoot wide-opened with an 8X ND.

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As others have posted, the Monochrome can be a true game changer..The files are very easy to work with, the amount of detail you can pull out of the shadow area is incredible, The files are just gorgeous, not to mention the high ISO performance is just so useful and usable.

 

I do not use filters but did buy an ND filter that I have not had a chance to use..I believe I bought a -3..

 

Good luck in your decision, I am sure you will be another MM zealot! :p

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Liky you, it was black and white pictures which made me fall in love with photography. The combination of mystery and detail is perfect for me.

I have used an M9 for the last three years, a M8 for about the same amount of time before that, and M6 before then, with Ilford films as my "staple diet".

 

Anyway, I find that while the M9 does indeed make very beautiful black and whites, they still look like color pictures converted into black and white, no matter how much I fiddle with the color and contrast sliders. I am a professional photographer, so this is something I do every day. Anyways, what I have seen from the Monochrom has a whole different "look", not quite ilford film, but a heck of a lot closer than anything I have seen from other digital cameras. I think of it more like a scanned medium format negative, but a scan to maximise dynamic range. In other words it will look a little unimpressive straight up, but with a few seconds in lightroom it will -really- come to life. As a B/W shooter, you will know what look you are after and will quickly learn how to get there in post processing.

 

Likewise, the M240 files have left me unimpressed i all regards perhaps save from ISO sensitivity.

 

I have realized that if you go out shooting, not knowing if its going to be a color or grayscale end product, then you might as well shoot color. But if you KNOW its going to be grayscale in the end, the results are going to be a lot different (and probably better) because of the mental concentration.

 

(Hey, anyways,. If I need to document some beautiful colors I always got my iPhone with me.)

 

Suffice to say, I ordered my Monochrom yesterday and put up my M9 for sale.

 

To say I am excited would be a understatement.

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I also have an M9 and Monochrom.

I primarily shoot for B&W.

Since I bought the Monochrom the M9 hardly gets used.

 

The Monochrom is extraordinary - resolution, tonal range, the amount of recovery available in the shadows, low-light performance, and especially the fine 'filmic' grain quality of the noise.

 

I rarely use filters (excluding ND) as I can get the control I need in photoshop and the concern about overexposing is greatly overrated.

 

The unmodified DMGs are flat and neutral, exactly as they should be, but are extraordinarily versatile. I never cease to be amazed at how extraordinary the final prints are. The resolution and tonal graduation does require a different PP workflow.

 

I think we're all saying the same thing...

Get the Monochrom :)

Edited by MarkP
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The world's in colour.

;)

 

I often get this quote thrown at me too. But see, the world also has sound, smell, movement, and a whole range of other characteristics not capturable in one medium.

 

Its just a matter of how many of them YOU need to get your message across.

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Hi All,

 

Without wanting to promote too heated a debate, I am thinking of buying either an M9 or Monochrom.

 

On our last trip I was using Ilford PanF.

 

One main reason for going digital is to make life easier, without processing and printing etc.

 

Susie

 

Most who have responded so far have concentrated on the M9 v MM part of your question without addressing the issue of should you stick with film or go digital.

 

Digital isn't really easier IMHO and unless you already know about RAW conversions, PP and printer calibration etc etc., can be a lot more complicated. It depends what your current workflow is too (i.e. do you scan your B&W negs and print digitally?).

 

Digital is a different medium and produces different results (OK you can imitate the look of film by adding grainy effects etc in PP).

 

The cost of an MM and lens or two will pay for a heap of film and processing.....

 

Just some food for thought.

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I often get this quote thrown at me too. But see, the world also has sound, smell, movement, and a whole range of other characteristics not capturable in one medium.

 

Its just a matter of how many of them YOU need to get your message across.

 

True.

 

But photography is a visual medium, so in this context we're working within that set of constraints.

 

You have a huge amount of choice within that constraint as to how to express whatever it is you want to express. I don't see it as a matter of "how much you need to get your message across"" at all, because that carries the slightly competitive suggestion that the less you need the better, which, whilst being a superficially attractive idea, is actually rather missing the point: great writing, novels, plays, poetry even, are not judged by how many or how few words are used, not music by the number of notes. What matters is their effect.

 

Simplicity is a virtue in my eyes, but whether a B&W or colour photo best embodies it is a very large and separate subject.

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I have M9, MM, and M

 

The MM is an infinitely more rewarding camera than its more colourful brothers.

 

Digital processing is a breeze with the MM and the results are stunning.

 

You may need ND's if you want extremely shallow DOF in sunny conditions .... but that's not much of a problem.

 

In a perfect world you need both .... but an MM and Digilux seems fine to me.

 

There are some DNG's for you to download and play with in Lightroom here if you want to ....

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/277178-monochrom-dng-links.html#post2354060

 

you can download free trial of LR4 here (note: other programs like Aperture do not show MM files):

 

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/tdrc/index.cfm?product=photoshop_lightroom

 

ideally you need to play with Silver Efex Pro as well .... but a while in LR will give you a good idea of what you can do with these files.... :)

Edited by thighslapper
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I use the Monocrhom when I want black and white and I use the M9/M when I want color. I enjoy using the glass filters and the results out of the MM are fabulous. Last week I hung 8 architectural photos that I made. 7 were MM and 1 was with a Canon 5DIII. I am not one who spends a lot of time guessing what camera or lens was used, but I am waiting for a good MM vertical photo to replace the Canon photo.

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