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(first let me apologies for posting duplicate messages. I was not aware of the forum bug where I can't use word "print" in the title, which messed up the previous posts. Thanks to Jaap for pointing it out. Hope this goes ok).

 

Hi Guys,

 

This is not exactly M9 question but related to prints. After owning M9 for almost one year (and an enjoyable one, I must add) first time I need to make a large print.

 

I was at my best friend's wedding and casually I carried my M9 with 28cron ASPH. I knew the light was bad and just wanted to experiment without any pressure (there were other pro photographers shooting the event). I shot mostly in 1600 iso (some in 800) with shutter speed around 1/30 (slowest I could go to capture the first dance) and sometimes 1/15 when nobody was moving. I should say that I was pleasantly surprised with what I got !! of course the grain is there but not too distracting.

 

Now I have at least two shots (first dance and bride,groom descending stairs with lots of friends and family on both side with sparklers) that I would like to print real BIG. It will also be a test of how 1600 iso pushed 1 stop shows up on the print.

 

Now my question for all the knowledgeable folks here is this... How big can I get it printed with reasonable cost (<$100 maybe) and from where? In the past I have done 20x30 printed from shutterfly but would like to know better (and bigger options).

 

-Jayant

 

PS: I am waiting and watching new M but if this print comes out good then I don't need new M (at best delayed for some time). :)

 

Leica M9 with 28 cron ASPH, 50 lux ASPH, old 135 Elmar

Canon 40D with 85 1.2, 35 1.4, 200 2.8 and 400 Leitz 6.8 with adaptor

Konica autoreflex with Hexanon 35, 57 and 135

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There are countless places that can do a reputable job of printing from a digital file, Jayant. Probably the first question is to ask where are you located? I'd recommend finding a local printer, if at all possible.

 

As for what print size is possible, I'm sure you know that as you go larger, you need an increasingly robust file. 20x30 or larger requires a very strong file. I see two possible problems with what you've described:

 

1. The relatively high iso and resulting noise.

2. The very low shutter speeds.

 

The first can potentially be attenuated by converting to black and white, if that suits what you're trying to achieve.

 

The second may very well be a showstopper. There are many images that are perfectly fine at smaller print sizes... but that then quickly break down when trying to go larger. Frankly, I can't imagine a 20x30 or larger print coming from a handheld frame shot at 1/15 or 1/30 sec. But then, maybe you're a very good shooter, or serendipity happened.

 

Which is why I recommend finding a local printer. Someone you can sit with and discuss the files, and discuss how big they can be printed.

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Thanks. I am in San Francisco bay area. If anyone knows of a local printer then please let me know.

 

The print is going to be BW. It has no crop. I have done pixel peeping and grain is acceptable (to me, will see in the print). The motion blur is not there for the main object. It is fairly sharp for 1/15 sec. :)

 

I am attaching the pic. Its compressed for web viewing. You can't judge the technical quality from this though.

 

BTW, has anyone tried canvas print? Any advise on printing will be appreciated.

 

-Jayant

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There are a number of processing steps you can take using LR or PS, in advance of providing a file to your print shop, including any obvious noise reduction. Of course camera shake issues, if any, are another matter.

 

I agree that it makes sense to speak with some local services to understand their output and requirements. A lot depends on your print standards.

 

When all else fails, print smaller and/or stand farther away from the display.:p

 

Jeff

 

Edit...just saw your pic and comments regarding shake, etc.

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If shake becomes an issue for you many guys add a small amount of grain in LR4 to minimize seeing the blur if present.

 

Yes, I have tried adding grain in soft pictures to make them "look" sharp in the past. A trick I hear very few people talking about now a days. I guess in the pursuit of "grain free clean" picture this technique is usually forgotten. :)

 

Now if I just find a local printer....HELP

 

-Jayant

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There are countless places that can do a reputable job of printing from a digital file, Jayant. Probably the first question is to ask where are you located? I'd recommend finding a local printer, if at all possible.

 

As for what print size is possible, I'm sure you know that as you go larger, you need an increasingly robust file. 20x30 or larger requires a very strong file. I see two possible problems with what you've described:

 

1. The relatively high iso and resulting noise.

2. The very low shutter speeds.

 

The first can potentially be attenuated by converting to black and white, if that suits what you're trying to achieve.

 

The second may very well be a showstopper. There are many images that are perfectly fine at smaller print sizes... but that then quickly break down when trying to go larger. Frankly, I can't imagine a 20x30 or larger print coming from a handheld frame shot at 1/15 or 1/30 sec. But then, maybe you're a very good shooter, or serendipity happened.

 

Which is why I recommend finding a local printer. Someone you can sit with and discuss the files, and discuss how big they can be printed.

 

Like Jäger (Jeff) I too am in Va. (actually Jeff, not far from you) so although I specialize in large format printing, SF is a bit far :). He had some excellent recommendations. A good local printer has a number of protocols up his sleeve that allows them to printer significantly larger than the native sized file would normally indicate, so working with a well respected local printer is a very good first step

 

. Printing on canvas which I often do, besides the obvious visual difference to conventional paper, has the added benefit of hiding pixelation normally and easily observed when compared to printing on convention paper. Often times when canvas is not an acceptable medium to the client, I'll often show them prints on slightly textured fine art paper, which although subtle in visual appearance from smooth papers, also helps when file sizes fall short. Then there are various software techniques that are often employed in conjunction.

 

I've oversimplified much of these explanations, but wanted you to know there are options to achieve your objectives. My concern would be more for possible subject movement due to slow shutter speeds than digital noise due to high ISO. Of course it's all relative and related to each individual image.

 

Dave (D&A)

Edited by D&A
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Motion blur need not be an image-killer, although you do need a bit of luck.

For minor shake the directional sharpening tool in Photoshop's Smart Sharpen can provide a marked improvement. For more desperate cases the forensic program Focus Magic which relies on pixel shifting rather than contrast manipulation can produce stunning results, if you get the parameters just right, sometimes in multiple passes. Focus Magic works on out of focus shots too. Of course this is for salvaging important shots. Nothing beats a properly sharp file.

Edited by jaapv
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I generally order from MPix.com either directly or through Zenfolio, my web host. MPix provides a type of print they call "true" black & white. Every image I've ordered from them has been beautifully printed and in a truly neutral BW without any color cast. The last one I ordered was 30x20 from an ME file, cropped to 13MPixels.

 

FWIW, I agree w JAAPV, motion blur is not always a deal killer and in many instances, especially nighttime BW shots, can actually add atmosphere to the image.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks guys for all the input. I went with a local printer (Bay area custom prints. Based in Oakland). They were quite patient with me about the requirement (I didn't want to lose much in the sides of canvas print) and sent me different sized proof prints for review. It was quite usable till 36x52 but I got 20x30 (approx) printed since it was within my budget at this time.

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Its a great shot about a special moment, not IQ - they will love it - don't worry about it, congrats!

 

I agree adding a light touch of grain in Photoshop will unify the texture

 

I'd also play with the curves adjustment - your blacks are a bit muddy on my screen

 

If you shot in DNG, there's a lot that can be done in RAW editing, teasing up lowlights, luminescence etc.

 

I've had made 60 x 40" prints from the M9 - not a problem

 

And cheers to the happy couple!

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Its a great shot about a special moment, not IQ - they will love it - don't worry about it, congrats!

 

I agree adding a light touch of grain in Photoshop will unify the texture

 

I'd also play with the curves adjustment - your blacks are a bit muddy on my screen

 

If you shot in DNG, there's a lot that can be done in RAW editing, teasing up lowlights, luminescence etc.

 

I've had made 60 x 40" prints from the M9 - not a problem

 

And cheers to the happy couple!

 

Thanks. I got the print yesterday. Looks awesome.

 

I did try to bring out the dark area in LR before sending the final pic for print. It is almost same in final print with little more details in dark area. I had first time experience with reduced DR on the print vs what I see on the computer screen. The proof print did help in adjusting the tone curve.

 

My friend is pleasantly surprised. smile.gif

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