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I've just purchased an Alpa 6b camera for which need to consider some lenses. One option is to consider Angenieux lenses including the pioneering 1950s Angenieux 'Retrofocus' wide angle designs ie 28mm f/3.5, 24mm f/3.5, and 35mm f2.5. I am aware that 1950s Angenieux lens coatings are 'soft' so decent examples are scarce - but they appear to be beautifully made. I have seen one 24mm f3.5 Alpa fit example on offer complete with an M adaptor - not cheap but could be a cost effective purchase if used on both my Alpa and M cameras - especially as I do not have a Leica 24mm M lens.

 

However, before taking the plunge I'm wondering about the performance characteristics and if 1950s Angenieux 'Retrofocus' lenses are considered to be worthwhile acquisitions with a view to also using them regularly on my M cameras?

 

Does anyone have any experience of using same on M cameras and if so, what are your opinions of the image quality?

 

I have also considered Kern lenses but the 50mm Macro Switar is becoming prohibitively expensive.

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

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The 24mm was very good for its time - long before Leitz sold a 24 - but isn't a match for the best recent ones. Mechanically, though, they're beautiful! I don't know whether Angénieux modified the optics during its long life in the Alpa catalogue.

 

Remember that the 24 doesn't couple to the rangefinder, but the Switars do if you have the right adapter.

 

Sent from another device..

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Hello Dunk,

 

I think Kinoptic in Paris still makes (or has left in stock) some 100mm F2 lenses in Alpa mount. Some versions of this lens, which resolved about 100 lines per mm in the 1970's, were/are made to focus from Infinity to 1 : 1.

 

Kinopic made 50mm, 75mm & 100mm lenses, all F2, many focussing to 1 : 1, for the Alpa. They also made a 150mm F2.8 with their mount & possibly a 210mm lens.

 

I liked the rear pulling wind lever & really nifty pull up rewind on the 6C I used to use. As well as many of the other unique to Alpa components & ways to use them. Don't forget that with Alpa's short 37.8mm flange to film distance you can fit all kinds of lenses & accessories from pretty much everybody. All kinds of adapters, motors, bellows, etc were made.

 

The shutter speed dial is especially valuable when you are doing precise exposures.

 

35mm Alpas are really nice cameras. Built as well as an M or SL & really nice to use.

 

There were 2 separate Issues with reviews in "Camera 35" magazine in the early or mid 1970's. One was of telephoto lenses & the other covered wide angles. All were favorable reviews (for the 1970's).

 

Enjoy.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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Hi Dunk,

 

I don't think the Angeniuex 24mm can use on M body as they won't able to cover full frame. I have both angeniuex S2 28mm f1.8 n 32mm f1.8 I can only use them on Nex. Perhaps I'm wrong but please do check t image circle before making any modification.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

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I don't think the Angeniuex 24mm can use on M body as they won't able to cover full frame. I have both angeniuex S2 28mm f1.8 n 32mm f1.8 I can only use them on Nex. Perhaps I'm wrong but please do check t image circle before making any modification.

 

It's OK, Jeffo. These are lenses that Angénieux made in the 50s to 70s specifically for the full-frame 35mm cameras. Mounts included Exakta, M42 and Alpa Reflex. Alpa didn't make any lenses themselves but insisted on the highest standards; I believe that they tested each lens from the several manufacturers they used (e.g. Angénieux, Kern, Kilfitt, Oude Delft, Schneider) before delivering them to dealers.

 

Sent from another device..

Edited by giordano
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It's OK, Jeffo. These are lenses that Angénieux made in the 50s to 70s specifically for the full-frame 35mm cameras. Mounts included Exakta, M42 and Alpa Reflex. Alpa didn't make any lenses themselves but insisted on the highest standards; I believe that they tested each lens from the several manufacturers they used (e.g. Angénieux, Kern, Kilfitt, Oude Delft, Schneider) before delivering them to dealers.

 

Sent from another device..

 

Yes. You are right. Just checked. This 28/3.5 should be ok for M. Sorry, my mistake.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

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Hello Everybody,

 

There is something to be said for Jeff's cautionary advice:

 

1. A portion of Alpa's production was 1/2 frame bodies for various uses.

 

2. A number of the wide angle lenses used by Alpa in the 1960's & 1970's did NOT cover the whole 24 X 36 frame. And they told you so.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

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Thank you to everyone who has replied. The Alpa 6b I bought is going back to the dealer because it has a couple of faults thus lens purchases are on hold for the time being. The dealer has offered to have the camera repaired or alternatively give me a full refund. Meantime I am still researching Alpa fit lenses. Kinoptic is one manufacturer I had not considered - I seem to recall they made some M fit lenses in recent years?

 

Best wishes

 

dunk

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Hello Dunk,

 

Kinoptik also adapted their 100mm F2 for Leitz (reflex), Nikon, Canon, etc.

 

Many of the lenses that did not fill the full frame (previous Post) were movie lenses adapted for Alpa. The person who invented & produced the Alpa was also the inventor of movie cameras, etc.

 

Alpa, if you remember, made a good number of 1/2 frame cameras & would pretty much give you what Ala Carte does here today with film "M's". Alpa did this throughout its production with 1/2 frame, full frame & many other frame configurations using 35mm film. You could contact them or go to the factory & they would pretty much make you what you wanted. With all of the bells & whistles of Ala Carte here & maybe even a little bit more.

 

Not bad for a tiny Company that didn't make very many cameras when compared to a much larger camera company like Leitz.

 

Kinoptik has a current web site altho this only lists what is currently available & does NOT deal with their history.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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Kinoptik is still in business, after a management buyout some years back. Prices are now very high and if they indeed have sold any new lenses in the last few years would surprise me.

 

Used ones show up on eBay all the time, and many of these are movie lenses with a rebuilt mount. Lenses with a shorter focal length than 75mm do not cover 35mm full frame, but they are nevertheless offered. I owned a Kinoptik 2/100 some time back and it was razor sharp but very heavy and poor ergonimics.

 

I think these lenses are being "hyped up" from time to time. Probably they were second to none when they were designed some 50 years ago, but I do not think there has been much development since.

 

A also have the Switar 1.9/50 which is a kind of legendary lens an eBay prices are often close to 2 - 3000$. Again, this was no doubt a first class lens some decades back, as good as the Summicrons of the time. I have an adapter and use the lens for fun sometimes on an M9, and stopped down a bit it delivers superb results.

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Hi Ivar,

 

I have a few Kinoptik 50mm that covers full frame without any problem. The only thing is that the modification cost is quite high. One of them is the Foyer 50mm f2 and the other one is Fulgior 50mm f1.3.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

 

Yes, these are "stone age" old lenses which may be different from the "modern" ones. Kinoptik on their web lists coverage as 31mm for the Apo 2.0/50, not nearly enough to cover 35mm full frame. The story for 75mm is about the same, and that is why only lenses from 100mm and up are listed as suitable for "photography".

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Hello Ivar,

 

I thnk some of these Kinoptik lenses like the 100mm F2 come from the same "stone age" as a Ferrari 365GTB/4 rag top convertible.

 

Resolution of 100 lines per millimeter is not too shabby.

 

Even for the "stone age".

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

No, the lenses referred to are much older. The 2/100 is still offered and I agree that it is faboulus. The Ferrari 365 GTB is wonderful also - one of the most beautiful cars ever built.

 

It is almost as quick 0 - 100 as my BMW diesel.

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Hello Ivar,

 

You are quite right about a Ferrari 365GTB/4 being slower than your BMW from 0 to 100 kph because the Ferrari would still be in first gear. When you throw the /4 into second at a little above 100 then its response is somewhat different.

 

It max's out at 1/1,000th of the speed of light per second in kilometers per hour. Not bad for a street legal rag top from long ago. Either back then or today.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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