Leica lens or Sony camera: part 1

[Appmax]

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Which is a better choice? Buy:

 

1) A Leica Summilux 35mm for $5k

 

Or

 

2) A Sony RX1 for $3k

 

I will soon have my new M and have 4 Leica lenses. The advantage to the Sony is

1) Less $

2) Same or better low light performance (one less f-stop, but better ISO performance)

3) Auto focus for those few events where the subject is moving

 

Anyone with experience or a view on the matter?

[CaptZoom]

You'll soon have a Leica kit with four lenses, and you still want more!?!

 

I've no experience with either of the two choices you've presented, however I have a couple of observations:

 

A big con (for me) of the Sony is no integrated viewfinder. This is a pretty big consideration for me.

 

The other consideration is of space in your camera bag. A lens will be more space efficient than a camera (plus accessories: spare battery, viewfinder).

 

Only you can make the decision if the auto focus and ISO performance is worth the trade off.

[luigi bertolotti]

Well... imho the logic that one can find in the choice for Sony is the perennial question of "going out with TWO bodies" (I did it VERY few times... but I agree that in some situations it can be worth); of course, you could use the Sony as the "35mm camera" with the Leica as the "90 or 21 camera" (just as an example... two focals I often used "coupled" with a 35).

 

BUT... is it EFFECTIVE to work with two so different cameras TOGETHER ? Taking on two bodies has a sense for being QUICK in situations in which changing the lens can be critical... but operating QUICKLY and CORRECTLY with two cameras that have different size/handling, different VF, different focusing, just to quote the ergonomics factors, I think is a not so easy attitude...(even if, years and years ago, it was not unusual to see pros with Leica + Rolleiflex TLR at thei neck... or Nikon + Hasselblad...)

 

If you aren't in the mood of going out with two cameras... I'd say it is not a good idea to take the Sony instead of the Summilux 35.

[Appmax]

So I checked out the RX1 and the IQ is outstanding. I am going to go for it. I figure I will take the RX1 with me to many places I wouldn't bring my M. The camera and lens is only 480 gm. The charger is built into the camera so all I need is a USB cord to charge.

 

I will buy the M and will use this camera for portraits (90 cron and Noctilux). If taking a big trip, I will grab the M and the 90 + wate.

 

I think in the end, I will save $2k and end up taking my camera (RX1) more places.

 

We will see...

 

Leica needs to watch out - the Sony cameras are very good.

[Dirk Mandeville]

Which is a better choice? Buy:

 

1) A Leica Summilux 35mm for $5k

 

Or

 

2) A Sony RX1 for $3k

 

Given the rate at which you buy and sell cameras, the better choice is the Summilux. In a year or two, when you sell the RX1, it will be worth less than half of what you pay for it. The Summilux, on the other hand, will have stayed the same if not risen in value. Thus with the Sony, you will likely lose $1500 or more, vs. breaking even or even making money with the Leica lens. Lenses are always a better value than digital cameras.

 

p.s. I don't think Leica is too worried about Sony taking their market share.

[algrove]

I say good choice. FF, 24MP, Macro useable to 0.2 meters, AF, did I say AUTO FOCUS, Zeiss f2.0 and an EVF that to me is unequalled so far. It is a joy to use and if you want quick candid street shots the RX-1 is hard to beat. The leaf shutter is so quiet that when I use it I often cannot tell if I took the shot. It's like a hybrid car-you can't hear it. The files are terrific and it is so light that it weighs close to a Leica lens. $3200 with EVF is not cheap, but the images and build quality show its value. The on/off switch reminds me of the M, even its placement position. I find no problem changing between the two cameras as I use the RX1 on aperture priority and auto ISO up to 6400, just like LL, M. Reichmann suggests. The AF feature makes this compact package VERY easy to use. There is a getDPI thread on the best settings for this camera.

 

Travel. Take it, you just might be surprised. Look at the Horizon on it. This is made to work with as many shots as you want it visible. Horizon on the M is a joke buried way down in the Menu while after each shot it goes off and you have to dig into the Menu again to activate it.

 

Whether a guy often buys and sells gear is his choice, not ours. As for digital bodies, they all go down as obsolete is de rigueur today, even Leica bodies.

[Dirk Mandeville]

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Whether a guy often buys and sells gear is his choice, not ours. As for digital bodies, they all go down as obsolete is de rigueur today, even Leica bodies.

 

Totally agree. Which is why when the question is asked which is the better choice, the lens purchase is almost always the correct answer. Digital cameras come and go and lose their value quickly. Lenses last for the long term and Leica ones tend to maintain their value. Don't forget: the guy said he expects to have an M soon. Given that scenario, a quality 35mm lens that will last him through that camera and future generations of that camera and hold its value is a much better buy than a fixed lens point and shoot camera that will lose half its value within a year or two.

[algrove]

Dirk--

 

Well put and I had no beef with your comment. Since Sony markets the RX1 as a P&S you make a good point, but if the body goes down in value will the lens hold its value? Just joking with you.

[jip]

Why do people tend to keep asking 'what to buy' on this forum, if they usually already know what they are gonna get... I would get that summilux no other camera then Leica comes through my door...

 

Even if it's really good, or better... I use what I use and I like Leica... I wouldn't want to have to get used to 2 types of menus and 2 types of cameras... the M8 and M9 already differed too much for me... I kept looking in the settings for ISO on the M9.

[Dirk Mandeville]

Since Sony markets the RX1 as a P&S you make a good point, but if the body goes down in value will the lens hold its value? Just joking with you.

 

Of course it will . . . it's a Zeiss, after all.

 

Seriously, though, this brings up another good point. When are camera manufacturers going to stop making us update the whole camera and allow us to just upgrade the sensor within the camera to the next version? What a thought!

[Appmax]

Dirk - I agree with your point.

[luigi bertolotti]

.... When are camera manufacturers going to stop making us update the whole camera and allow us to just upgrade the sensor within the camera to the next version? What a thought!

 

It would need a more complex mechanical construction (a new sensor can need new power system, cabling etc...) and of high quality, to support a longer lifecycle with some significant disassembly-reassembly... with potential issues on waterproofing : to say, a COSTLY camera to build : I don't predict such an announcement in the near future... modularity of sensor, nowadays, is the field of Digital Medium Format SLR : cameras of very high cost and with a specialized market that (I think) is not growing.

[jankap]

Please take a look at the Sigma DP-line, if you like one-lens-cameras. DP-1m, DP-2m, DP-3m, etc.

Jan

[philipus]

Which is a better choice? Buy:

 

1) A Leica Summilux 35mm for $5k

 

Or

 

2) A Sony RX1 for $3k

 

I will soon have my new M and have 4 Leica lenses. The advantage to the Sony is

1) Less $

2) Same or better low light performance (one less f-stop, but better ISO performance)

3) Auto focus for those few events where the subject is moving

 

Anyone with experience or a view on the matter?

 

If all you want is a carry-everywhere camera, then, sure, get a point and shoot. But the better choice, with long-term thinking in mind, is the lens. You'll then have a pretty perfect coverage of useful M focal lengths.

 

I would never want to be without my 35. But then again, I don't find that it hinders me much to bring an M with a lens as a carry-everywhere camera.

[woorob]

FWIW, I received one of the first Sony RX1 cameras in the US early last winter and ended up returning it.

 

I thought it would be the ideal combination of small size and top quality. I REALLY liked the 18mm Zeiss Distagon that I used with my M9-P, love the fact that the RX1 has a full frame sensor, and thought the camera would be pocketable. I sold my X2 in order to buy the RX1.

 

When I received the RX1, I conducted one of my [unscientific] tests photographing the wooded area immediately in back of my house, where there is a lot of detail including hardwood trees, a wetland and prairie grasses, using the self timer and a sturdy tripod, taking several pictures of the same exact scene. I compared the RX1, my M9, my D800 and a Sony RX-100 that I also own. I repeated the test two more times to ensure that I was not drawing false conclusions.

 

Based on my purely unscientific test, the RX100 -- surprisingly -- generated really nice results, almost as good in some respects as the RX1. Yet the RX100 is considerably smaller and lighter, fits into my pocket comfortably and comes with a zoom lens. Not to mention over $2,000 less expensive. I think the RX-100 is almost the perfect P&S travel camera.

 

To be sure, the images produced by the RX1 are plenty sharp and crisp. In my opinion, however, they did not compare with those from the [far more expensive] 35mm Summilux-ASPH lens on my M9 (which interestingly showed some colors in the foliage that did not appear in the Sony images).

 

Most disconcerting, and the primary reason I returned the camera, was the white chromatic fringing (or blooming?) that appeared in the images I took. When using Lightroom to zoom in on tree branches, which were barren of leaves, the images from the RX1 under high magnification showed a distinct white outline appearing around the branches. This outline, which did not appear in the shots I took with my other cameras, seems to have resulted from shooting upward into the morning sky. It was not apparent per se under normal viewing circumstances, only under high magnification, but was definitely there.

 

Although not a reason to return the RX1, I was also disappointed that it was not supplied with a wrist strap (which comes standard with the RX-100) or an AC battery charger (which Sony does not supply with either camera). It was a bit too bulky to fit comfortably in my jacket pocket. I wonder if it would be more pocketable if the lens were f/2.8 instead.

 

I wish I had not sold my Leica X2 to fund my purchase of the RX1. Just my two cents' worth.