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Got a M3 with Elmar-M 50mm


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Hello,

 

Tomorrow I'll pickup a M3 with Elmar-M 50mm!

 

Since I have never shot with a camera without light meter, do you guys have some advice, I mainly use the following film in my M6TTL:

 

ILFORD Delta 400

ILFORD HP5

KODAK Tri-X

KODAK Portra 400

 

How big are the exposure latitudes of these films, because I can guess an approximate shutter speed, but I'm rarely spot on what the camera advices!

 

Any other tips and tricks?

 

 

I'm wondering how good the 50mm Elmar-M is, I've had the older version, and Liked it. But sold it to finance for a 50mm Summicron-M

 

Any differences between the new and old Elmar 50mm?

 

Thanks in advance!

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I've only used the Kodak films, but both these should do well with your estimates, since you have been using the same speed. They have good latitude. The old 50 Elmar is one of my favorite lenses (the first I used back in 1960s), but the new one is supposed to be considerably better.

 

You might want to find a Leicameter MR or MR4 to complete the "M3 Experience." I used my M4 for may years without one, but most of the Leica photographers I knew in the 1960s used the Leicameter.

Edited by TomB_tx
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Jip,

Both HP5 and Tri-X are forgiving and easy to use in an M3. Haven't used Delta400 much.

 

The 50 Elmar-M is a cracking lens. Better than it's predecessors and very good close up as well. I like it enough that I had DAG modify it with a focusing tab for me.

 

Here are some of Bill Palmer's shots with the lens http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/people/243127-raf-brooklands-50mm-elmar-m.html

 

and here is one of mine on the M8 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/46964-elmar-50-2-8-a.html#post495162

 

Carl

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Seems like a great lens, can't wait to try the combo out! :D

I'll probably have to get used to the 'reversed' shutterspeed dial... on the M3 :)

 

Enjoy! And the shutter speed dial is not really a problem. I have both types and don't really think about it.

 

Carl

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Hello,

 

How big are the exposure latitudes of these films, because I can guess an approximate shutter speed, but I'm rarely spot on what the camera advices!

 

Any other tips and tricks?

 

jip, I gather from your "guess an approximate shutter speed..." that you just turn the dials until the meter says it's ok? If I've misinterpreted that... disregard everything I've written past this line. ;)

 

If that's true, however, allow me to suggest that you approach exposure differently than you have done in the past. First with a meter-less camera, always remember the sunny-16 rule... with your film speed and shutter speed set to equal numbers (ISO 100 film, 1/125th sec SS or ISO 400 film, 1/500th sec SS ) in bright sun, the "average" aperture will be f/16. You can backwards calculate from there just about any exposure in one-stop increments... bright overcast will be f/11, deep shade f/5.6 and so forth. Indoors may be a little more thought provoking, but you'll get the hang of it quickly. That method also allows you to check the appropriateness of your meter readings without having another meter.

 

Also remember that the odds of any two meters reading identically are slim. The electronic ones are better at it, but Gossen and Sekonic are set to different calibration standards so they'll always differ in their readings... sometimes as much as a full f/stop. Neither are "wrong."

 

Light meters are calibrated for an 18% gray card reflectance. (That's merely a truism, not the truth, but for the sake of this we'll go with it.) Reflected meters (as your M6 has) presume that what you're metering has an 18% reflectance and then sets that to "gray." So if you meter off a white shirt, it will expose it as though it were gray. Same with a black coat, or bright light such as a sunset.

 

Incident readings (readings taken at the subject with an external meter, usually with a white dome over the sensor) are much more accurate for rendering "gray" which will then mostly give you white whites and black blacks... we're venturing into Zone System territory here...

 

My point tho, is that how you set your camera for the exposure should take into account your need to stop action (or blur it,) and your required depth of field... and those should actively be taken into account with every exposure... you're not merely adjusting shutter speed or aperture to account for "gray;" those settings actively influence what your finished product will look like.

 

Using a meterless camera really isn't any different than using your M6, but it may help you make better and more interesting images by re-framing the way you go about finding the "proper exposure" by allowing you to better interpret in terms of shutter speed effects and depth of field what your meter is telling you and using that information in terms of what pre-visualizing what you want the image on your negative to look like.

 

Good luck! BTW, I LOVE my M3. :D

Edited by hepcat
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Thanks Hepcat,

 

I actually didn't meant turning the shutter speed dial until it gives me the circle, but I read what you wrote anyway!

 

What you said about the meter always making things grey I already knew that, because I always try to meter at something that is averagely lit, so not a white t-shirt or not a black t-shirt. Or if there is no other choice set the metering like it says and then adjust the aperture/shutter speed appropriately so if I meter on a white shirt I would over expose a little so I get a white shirt, and not a grey shirt.

 

I've been doing this with the M6TTL and M9-P (and before the M9 and M8.2 and M8) On the film M's I do miss the faster shutter speeds though. Like the M6TTL it only goes up to 1/1000 while the M9 goes till 1/4000 and the M8 I had even 1/8000 (although I rarely ever used the 1/2000 and above on those cameras.

 

With film it's different because I usually use ISO 400 film, with the digital M's I can just put the ISO down to 160.

 

So I can't just change the ISO, and I usually like to shoot wide open.

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Jip, you'll be surprised by the Elmar-M. Its is an amazing lens, capable of more than the old version, which is very good in itself. My feeling is that the Elmar-M performs on various light levels equally well, whereas the Elmar needed some light to show its quality. I'm sure you'll love the M3. I use mine with an MR meter and I am happy with that.

Lex

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A good rule of thumb is to go with the slowest ISO film you can use for the conditions you'll be shooting in. I would recommend ISO 100 film always, unless you know you're going to be shooting somewhere that you need more, especially if you frequently shoot wide-open for shallow DOF.

 

If you're flirting with shutter speeds higher than the film bodies go, then you should consider dropping your film speed to 100, Absent that, a ND filter will help you keep your SS down where the film bodies can handle the big apertures. Sometimes you'll need both ISO 100 film AND a ND filter to get that look you're after. I like shallow DOF as well, and the ND 0.9 three stop filters really help. If you're venturing out in daylight, seriously consider switching to ISO 100 film. There's no reason, really, to have a speed as high as 400 if you're shooting in broad daylight.

Edited by hepcat
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I disagree slightly. For my style of photography 400 is the most versatile ISO which works in most condtions day, dusk and night, in and out. That being said, I don't use my lenses at f1.4 in sunlight. Everyone's taste is different.

 

And speaking of films, in my tests Portra 400 can be exposed, on a single roll, as if it were 100-1600 (even 3200 in a pinch), be developed at box speed and will yield OK results with a bit of post-processing. Pretty amazing film actually, like a digital camera in a filmroll.

 

I have never felt the need for more than 1/1000. I have, however, felt the need for slower than the 1/20 on my Leica II(D).

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I only ever use ISO400 and Sunny-16 with my meterless cameras (M2 and II). I think it is more important to really learn the behaviour and characteristics of a particular film than to chop and change with the light conditions.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Sent from another Galaxy

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I agree with Bill completely in his comment above...

 

I usually use 400 TriX and whn I know it is really bright and only outdoors some Delta 100.

 

TrX has a 1-2 stop latitude whereby you can still make a very good print even if you are off on the exposure .

Even in bright conditions and shooting portraits at say 2-3meters away I know I will need at least f5.6 to get the DOF needed, so I never need any speed over 1/1000th.

 

Very often when shooting asa 400 I leave the shutter speed on 1/250th and just vary my aperture according to the lighting.In an average day I will only use 3 different aperture settings to cope with Bright sun/hazy sun/no sun.

 

THe new version Elmar is a stunning performer...really stunning.I use it frequently as the ergonomics, weight, sharpness and contrast are hard to beat from any other Leica 50mm.

 

Once you remove yourself from thinking Lux and Cron you will find the Elmar to be a reliable and lovely lens to use...

 

good hunting!

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I disagree slightly. For my style of photography 400 is the most versatile ISO which works in most condtions day, dusk and night, in and out. That being said, I don't use my lenses at f1.4 in sunlight. Everyone's taste is different.

 

I only ever use ISO400 and Sunny-16 with my meterless cameras (M2 and II). I think it is more important to really learn the behaviour and characteristics of a particular film than to chop and change with the light conditions.

 

I agree with Bill completely in his comment above...

 

I usually use 400 TriX and whn I know it is really bright and only outdoors some Delta 100.

 

Normally, I agree with all of you. Tri-X or T-Max 400 is my film of choice as well... except when I'm doing what the OP is doing... which is shooting large aperture lenses wide open in bright daylight. Then... ISO 100 is the choice. Frankly, if there was anything slower for that use, I'd be shooting that under those conditions. If you're regularly shooting at 1/1000 or above, it's probably time to re-evaluate your film speed needs.

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Then... ISO 100 is the choice. Frankly, if there was anything slower for that use, I'd be shooting that under those conditions.

 

For that reason I've shot Efke 25 in the past (old school emulsion but does rather well). For colour, one can pull Ektar quite well.

Edited by philipus
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Hello Jip,

 

Congratulations for your new camera & lens.

 

About exposure:

 

There are these things called light meters that are sometimes helpful in determining exposure. Using an exposure meter to determine exposure is pretty much the same thing as reading marked shutter speeds & setting engraved lens openings:

 

All 3 allow you to fine tune the image you are capturing somewhat more easily than if they were not there & you had to remember, figure & guess what each one might be.

 

Unless you want the challenge of determining exposure. Exposure determination by eye is a significant part of some people's enjoyment when doing photography.

 

As to exposing for white tee shirts on the beach at Cannes & black cats in coal bins with a meter that only reads 1 shade of gray: Zone System.

 

Altho there are not that many white tee shirts on the beach at Cannes.

 

The Zone System for reading & determining exposure. Not the Zone System for developing negatives.

 

My telephone line is still not fixed.

 

One thought about your 90mm Elmarit-M on your new M3: As good as your M3 is with a 50mm lens: It is clear that an M3 was specifically designed & built to be used with a 90mm lens.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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