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Prosophos: final verdict on the M240


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OMG... all this because of someone's opinion? Seriously, people are hung up about the word "verdict"? Talk about semantics. I see absolutely nothing wrong with Peter expressing his opinion and coming to the final decision whether or not he would purchase the M.

 

One would think you'd have to be a lawyer in order to post something such as expressing an opinion.

 

 

I actually believe it was the word 'final'. :cool:

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Guest WPalank
OMG... Seriously, people are hung up about the word "verdict"? Talk about semantics.

 

One would think you'd have to be a lawyer in order to post something such as expressing an opinion.

 

Actually you left out final, that is where I had the problem. Not as simple as bringing up a semantics excuse.

 

3. Not to be changed or reconsidered; unalterable.

 

Mark force, you beat me by a breath and concur. We Erfahrener Benutzers need to control these upstart Benutzers.

:rolleyes:

Edited by WPalank
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I guess from all this talk, there are actually very few of us who ordered the M after having some time with it. Jono and Chris had all the time in the world compared to most of us.

 

The question is, did these two gentlemen order their own M copies?

.

 

HI There

Chris has one body, with another on order.

I have two bodies on order, and I'm really upset that I haven't got one yet! (expecting the second one in April).

 

So - there's your answer :D

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I'm not sure if I should be appalled, amused, or... flattered.

 

My "Final Verdict" title was unfortunate -- I'll grant you that -- but it was fully consistent with the fact that I had written about the issue a few times, at the bequest of others following my blog.

 

So, I "finally" made a decision... that's where the word "final" in my title originates from. Readers of my blog would understand this. To be clear, it is my decision, for me... I'm not telling others what to think. That would be extremely silly.

 

For those of you who actually read what I wrote, word-for-word, I thank you for your measured responses in the sea of insanity that is this thread. For the rest, please, please... relax. Have a glass of wine, sit back, and enjoy the fact that you have so many good choices out there.

 

As I wrote in my post, none of this really matters, anyway, when it comes to creating memorable images. And for the record, I'm a die-hard Leica fan who shoots 100% of the time with Leica gear. So I'm not here to be a bad guy.

 

Finally, also for the record, I have my money sitting with my dealer, following returning a defective Monochrom a week ago. You can read about the experience here:

 

Leica Monochrom – test shot surprise(s). | P r o s o p h o s

 

 

Given that the Leica M has now arrived, I could choose to steer those funds into purchasing one, but I won't. I'm waiting for another Monochrom. It's my decision.

 

I hope you understand.

 

Peter.

P r o s o p h o s | Photographing Life's Little Moments™

Edited by Prosophos
grammar correction
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Given that the Leica M has now arrived, I could choose to steer those funds into purchasing one, but I won't. I'm waiting for another Monochrom. It's my decision.

 

I hope you understand.

 

Peter.

P r o s o p h o s | Photographing Life's Little Moments™

 

Thanks for coming Peter I think the MM is the right decision for you! Wouldn't it be nice though if we lived in a world where we didn't share opinions? It would be a nice happy sterile place...and no one's cameras would have hurt feelings. :eek:

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Ok so it's just speculation against users.

 

There is no such thing in the camera market. If you don't like the price, don't buy it and buy another camera. The MM is priced such that Leica can sell every one they can make. Thus, Econ 101 tells us that pricing based on sensor technology, production costs, or just about anything else is irrelevant and it is, in fact, underpriced.

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Thanks for coming Peter I think the MM is the right decision for you! Wouldn't it be nice though if we lived in a world where we didn't share opinions? It would be a nice happy sterile place...and no one's cameras would have hurt feelings. :eek:

 

Thank you.

 

Yes, of course that sort of world would be great ;)

 

As an aside, it looks like my Monochrom replacement is on it's way...

 

Peter.

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  • 9 years later...

It's now almost a decade later... what do people think of my conclusion from 2013?  (unfortunately, I became persona-non-grata to Leica because of it).

In my estimation, the M9 has held up much better than the M240, if we go by the re-sale market.  Admittedly, that might not be the best metric... and I know many people have enjoyed their M240 despite my opinion.

—Peter.

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My M-P 240 still hauls the mail.  Here is a recent example of that (M-P 240 + 90mm Summicron APO). 

Not too awful for a couple of old dinosaurs (me and the 240) wouldn't you say? 😊

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Edited by Herr Barnack
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1 hour ago, Herr Barnack said:

My M-P 240 still hauls the mail.  Here is a recent example of that (M-P 240 + 90mm Summicron APO). 

Not too awful for a couple of old dinosaurs (me and the 240) wouldn't you say? 😊

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I would say that's a nice photo.

Certainly the M240 has been used to good effect by many.

—Peter.

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On 9/27/2022 at 6:37 AM, Prosophos said:

It's now almost a decade later... what do people think of my conclusion from 2013?  (unfortunately, I became persona-non-grata to Leica because of it).

In my estimation, the M9 has held up much better than the M240, if we go by the re-sale market.  Admittedly, that might not be the best metric... and I know many people have enjoyed their M240 despite my opinion.

—Peter.

M9 received new life with the new sensor replacements so many M9 has younger heart in their old cloths, hence a better resale value, and being a CCD it's unique. M240 was basically overshadowed by M10. The M9 remained an alternative instead of a direct competing product.

I've come to love the M240 after went to M9 for a year and now back to M240. MUCH faster operation, clearer rangefinder, color isn't bad at all it's usually the white balance screwing things up.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I think the problem (sic) with the M9 is that it’s become a cult classic, a legend really… folks like to see magic in the files (and fair play to them) make emotive statements filmic/Kodachromic/whatever (again, fair play to them) then they assign an apparent technical reason for this magic (usually CCD sensor) which IMHO is quite an oversimplification… (OMMV)

It’s entirely feasible that someone could make a FF CMOS sensor camera with 8-9 stops of DR, quite open shadows, a certain delicacy to its highlight roll off curve and punchy colours and it would look very ‘CCD like’

Further muddying the waters IMHO is that for many the M9 was their first digital M or certainly their first FF digital M, this means happy memories, of using older glass (that one had from film cameras) digitally and great pictures of the kids growing up, or special vacations etc all rose tinted stuff…

The 240 was (is) the first in a steady succession of modern tech Ms, moving away from the barebones of film camera functionality with a digital heart to fully embracing the digital age.. there was a bit of a step back with the M10, but now the M is also about touchscreens and phone apps etc (of course you can chose not to use it), mahoosive megapixel counts, etc etc

The 240 I don’t think can ever share the same place in peoples hearts as the classic M9. It’s like a mark ii (insert car name here), not as wow instant classic as the mk 1 not as good technically as the mk 3. Plus IIRC it took a few FW releases to tame the 240 colours/bugs etc

The M9 I think deserves its place in the history books, but the reason for its inclusion is (IMHO) significantly more nuanced than the technology behind its sensor.

 

 

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The M9 is overly romanticized. It's from an era when there was still a strong argument to shoot film over digital for quality reasons - I don't miss that era. Blocky files, blocky prints, cartoonish tonal rendering all around. After owning (and not really liking) an M8, which I eventually sold to just keep using my pair of M6's, the M10 was the first digital Leica that made the film argument  mostly moot for my preferences - at least from the point of absolute resolution, color fidelity, and dr. Of course it was a little late compared to the other sensors available at the time that had well outpaced film, and the 240 was close, but the M9 is a relic without image quality attributes that competed with film IMO - unless you loved to put slide film through your film M, then ok - but I always wanted more tonal range and subtler detail and colors. M10 got it close - just not great in highlights but shadows almost make up for it. 

I get that M9 files were different - I almost bought one, I borrowed one a few times, still have a lot of files from them from some work. I see the difference in the files. It's subjective. For me the difference is overall worse in just about every appreciative way, not better. Opinion hasn't changed since it was released. 

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  • 1 month later...

I bought, used and sold a couple of M240s from March 2017 through to February 2020. Then I moved to SL(601) in March 2020, used and sold the SL in August 2022 and went back to the M240 in September 2022 and sold it again today in November, after two months of nostalgic use. I traded in for an SL(601) again. I use predominantly M lenses and only own the 24-90. The reasons are such:

where the M is better than the SL(601)

- weight, size and form factor. Certainly less imposing and better for street.

- RF experience and makes me want to shoot. 

Where the SL (601) is better than the M

- 1/16000 electronic shutter (allows me to use my lux at f1.4 in bright sunlight. (M is limited at 1/4000s) 

- superior shadow recovery (M produces green shadow recovery)

- seamless use of tele and ultra wide lenses on EVF (M requires the EVF which completely slows or use of external finder) 

- more responsive shutter (M has noticeable lag)

- option to shoot AF if I needed. 

- superior dynamic range

- use of Leica Fotos app to remote shoot and upload photos. 

The first three pluses drove me back to the SL. I had wonderful memories of the M that drove me back but the nostalgia could not beat the usefulness and practically of the SL, despite the size and weight and being ‘less fun’. 

Edited by northernlights
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