Prosophos: final verdict on the M240

[photomeme]

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Leica M (240): final verdict. | P r o s o p h o s

 

My long-standing suspicions ... have been confirmed: the new M produces CMOS-like images.... I mean smoother, more marshmallow-y, more… plastic vs. the crisper/more microcontrast-y CCD rendering from the M9/M-E/MM/M8.

[AlanJW]

Leica M (240): final verdict. | P r o s o p h o s

 

 

Well then, I guess that is the absolute final word. I am glad you won't be buying one. They're in short supply. Somehow I think people are seeing what they want to see, whether to justify buying one or justify not buying one. I'm glad Leica made such a huge error for some of us, even if we are all stupid or obtuse.

[kidigital]

These grand pronouncements and sermons from the top of the mountain crack me up. A CMOS look from a CMOS sensor ... stop the presses. Curious that the author hasn't even tried the new camera yet, though, and is commenting on the look of the images.

 

In all sincerity, I think that it'd be best to allow people a little time to adjust their workflow and tweak their processing to produce files the way that they'd like to see them. Some of the differences in the look between the M9 and M may narrow as users take a crack at the files. (I'm not saying that they'll eventually look the same, but post does make a difference in how a file looks.)

 

I remember the first comments about the image quality of the DMR, M9, S2 and MM ... there's always a lot of angst until people have some time tweaking the files to suit their vision.

[macjonny1]

Well he is right....for now. I am keeping my M9P.

 

 

When I am ready to upgrade though then he will of course be mistaken!!

[algrove]

Curious that the author hasn't even tried the new camera yet, though, and is commenting on the look of the images..

 

FINAL VERDICT? Someone who professes to know everything looking at jpeg images. How can some guy even point us there. It is a fact that every digital image needs tweaking in PP, no matter the camera or sensor used. LR profiles for the camera have not even been released. How can anyone with an ounce of credibility make these statements?

 

You are right kidigital. Give FW updates and well schooled and knowledgeable M users with good PP skills, a bit of time and they will get it better than today. I bet he didn't even take time to try and tweak Jono's or Chris's DNG's closer to his own liking. If he had, he would have given many examples of his PP abilities. Talk is cheap, especially when one has not even worked on a real M image taken by himself yet. One does not easily develop a satisfactory workflow on a new camera's images even after many hours of PP work. It must evolve through trial and error, day in and day out.

 

Some bad mouth Steve Huff, but I must say that cat shot is superb. Of course it was manipulated. Raw images are meant to be.

 

Maybe photomeme is after this Peter hiding behind the word same (meme).

Edited March 4, 2013 by algrove

[Paul J]

Proclaiming "final verdict", when you've not even given a fair trial, is both a great way to attract attention to your blog and a great way to stop people visiting your blog and delete the bookmark entirely.

[masjah]

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This Forum is wonderful for bringing to my attention pundits of whom I'd honestly never heard of before, and without whose opinions I seem to have survived; and that's not a snide comment, because I have derived from them considerable entertainment value (aka a good laugh). Please do keep posting new pundits' details as and when they arise everyone!

[pieterpronk]

To be fair, many people have decided there is no difference between CMOS and CCD without touching the camera as well. Actually I think most people make up their minds about image quality without touching the camera it seems. I know I am.

 

And "final verdict" obviously means final verdict for him personally after posting about his opinions on this matter twice before. I agree with his personal verdict that there is a difference, but I'm starting to appreciate the image quality of the M10 in its own right. It just took me a while.

I predict that some will keep on appreciating the characteristics of the M8, for its bw. The M9, for its own ccd color/crispness. And the new M10... Well we just have to wait untill its own subtle qualities slowly become apparent.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[philipus]

Well, as much as the title is really unfortunate, in fairness to Peter (who is a member here too and whose site I have found both inspiring and useful in the past) he did say he decided to go out on a limb and offer an opinion based on what he had seen so far. I read this posting as a statement that he won't buy the M. I also note that Peter didn't himself post the link to the site. Why shouldn't one be permitted to express opinions, particularly on one's own site?

 

I think there's already enough walk on water hyperbole here with respect to the M's functions and perceived image quality. People have expressed themselves about the CMOS vs CCD look and have expressed the view that the M sensor manages to look like that of the M9. I think it's OK if people have different opinions.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[tadeyev]

I do not want to defend anyone, but I am sometimes surprised by the way everyone reads / sees exactly what they want to…whether it be on the defensive or offensive, undertaken consciously or unconsciously.

 

So, I read all the comments above and then went to look at this person's blog word for word.

And I didn't pick up a single negative about the M-240 in it.

He merely feels that he prefers the images produced by the M9's sensor (to each his own, right?)

If someone said they preferred the MP over the M4 or vice versa, or Ilford rather than Adox, would it have been big a big deal?

I don't think so.

 

He even takes the trouble to qualify his online statements by saying that ultimately all those choices are irrelevant to photography as a medium, using an old print with shadows and other issues as an analogy to show that ultimately technique is only secondary to an emotion. All in all, nothing new or earth shattering really, just a posting of his personal tastes at this time.

 

And as far as I can understand, the 'final choice' referred to is for him personally as a M9 user.

Many here feel the same, and many others don't.

Everybody is right regarding what they prefer….I truly don't see why people have to defend the M; it will be (is already) a big success anyway..

 

Ciao,

Theo

Edited March 4, 2013 by tadeyev

[kdriceman]

I'll judge for myself, but if I like one more than the other, I doubt it will be because one is CCD and the other is CMOS. it is really quite silly to look at some images posted as JPEGs on the web and make a "final verdict" of a camera that has been out for less than a week.

[satureyes]

Well then, I guess that is the absolute final word. I am glad you won't be buying one. They're in short supply. Somehow I think people are seeing what they want to see, whether to justify buying one or justify not buying one. I'm glad Leica made such a huge error for some of us, even if we are all stupid or obtuse.

 

TOTALLY agree.

I've seen such childlike comments over the last few weeks - and since the camera has been filtering into usage stupid baseless comments about sensor differences.

 

You see what you want to see because you are trying to talk yourself out of buying one - and justifying not owning one..

 

It really doesn't matter. Your camera is amazing. Mine will be too when it arrives.

[wattsy]

You see what you want to see because you are trying to talk yourself out of buying one - and justifying not owning one.

 

That of course cuts both ways.

[mjh]

I also note that Peter didn't himself post the link to the site.

Actually that link and the implied attitude (“See? Out there on the internet there is someone who agrees with me.”) was funnier than the blog post itself.

 

But using the phrase ‘final verdict’ when one isn’t really in a position to judge (and also, by one’s own admission, somewhat prejudiced) is funny in its own way.

[Guest malland]

That of course cuts both ways.

Doesn't need to cut in any direction. Someone may be happy with Camera A without needing the Schadenfreude of thinking that Camera B is worse, and vice versa; but may want to know, or see for himself, how the other camera renders.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka]

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[uaqpau]

You guys are overreacting to Peter's post. I can't see anything offensive there.

He says he has seen many images produced with the M, so what makes you think that those images are JPG? He's a forum member and has probably seen Jono's DNG files and others'..

How many of you here have decided buying the M after having used it? Didnt you make your choice before having your hands on one of those cameras? That's exactly the same he did.. but in favor of the M9.

 

Regards

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[billo101]

You guys are overreacting to Peter's post. I can't see anything offensive there.

 

+1

[chris_tribble]

It's not offensive - it's just a bit silly. I've run Leica alongside Canon professional DSLRs since the M8 and time and time again find that the real thing that makes the differences is the lenses! Final Verdict... Hmmm

[mjh]

You guys are overreacting to Peter's post. I can't see anything offensive there.

Well, of course there is nothing offensive. I only believe it would have sufficed to state something like “I’m still happy with my M9 and the pictures taken with the M that I’ve seen don’t convince me I should get a new camera.” Instead his “My long-standing suspicions here, here, and in several other posts (too many to cite at this point) have been confirmed: the new M produces CMOS-like images.” reminds me of Lewis Carroll’s Bellman: “Just the place for a Snark! I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true.”

[kdriceman]

He says he has seen many images produced with the M, so what makes you think that those images are JPG? He's a forum member and has probably seen Jono's DNG files

 

Perhaps, but if one is presenting a "final verdict" and expects it to carry credibility, I would expect a more thorough discussion of the methodology and results. Subjective commentary is irrelevant to me.

 

Sean Reid has done this and provided side by side comparisons and yet he (even with his extensive experience) isn't ready to issue a final verdict. His methods have credibility because his methods are transparent and objective and he allows the viewer to make their own judgments.

 

There will be others that provide rigorous comparisons, but I won't pay attention to any that are just subjective rambling.