Just had a play with the M240

[Guest WPalank]

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S) I think that his (Mitch's) work reminds me more, in an emotional and textural way, of Daido Moriyama.

 

Sorry, not in the slightest. Not to say that Mitch isn't a fine photographer. Every couple of weeks or so I study one photographer who's works I admire. This week for me is Moriyama. Where is the grunge (pussycat photo?) where are the blocked up shadows? Textural way? You must be confusing Moriyama with someone else.

[Guest malland]

Great Shot that number one Mitch. Love your Paris images. I too opted for the M9P and will hang in till the dust has settled with the new M. Keep those intriguing images coming and good shooting wherever you are. Jorge

I too love Mitch's first image posted above; reminds me of Alex Webb's Istanbul...

Spot on PATB ! I too love the Istanbul images that Alex Webb did very much, but (with all due respect to the artist that Mitch is) I think that his (Mitch's) work reminds me more, in an emotional and textural way, of Daido Moriyama. Would love to hear from Mitch himself how the M9 and his MM is working for his distinct style. I can appreciate the MM preference and the way he can push the files wherever he likes to suit his work. More interesting to me would be his take on the M9(P) versus the image samples he has recently seen in the web from the new M. From his post above he seems to have recently opted out for the M9P as opposed to the new M.

Regards

Jorge

Sorry, not in the slightest. Not to say that Mitch isn't a fine photographer. Every couple of weeks or so I study one photographer who's works I admire. This week for me is Moriyama. Where is the grunge (pussycat photo?) where are the blocked up shadows? Textural way? You must be confusing Moriyama with someone else.

Thanks for the comments, guys. First, on getting the new cameras: the M-Monochrom was a no brainer — except for the price, which was a headache — because I could see that the files were so robust and malleable that I knew that I would be able to do what I wanted with them; what I was interested in was being able to process picture for high contrast while keeping a long mid-tone gradation. I continue to feel that the M-Monochrom is a stupendous camera: see my brief review here.

 

Although I bought the M-Mpnochrom in mid-September, I haven't shot nearly enough with it as I would have liked because I very busy last Fall. I like to shoot in series, but have only been able to do one, called Lanka Footsteps. BTW anyone interested in Sri Lanka history and politics would do well to read Robert Kaplan's excellent and facsinating Atlantic Monthly article Buddha's Savage Peace. The following are my two favorite pictures taken with the M-Monochrom: the first is from the Lanka Footsteps series.; the second one, the more I look at it, the more it makes me think of the Japanese novelist, Kirino Natsuo, three of whose books have been published in English translation: Out, Grotesque and The Real World.

 

 

 

Leica M-Monochrom | Summicron-28 | ISO 10000

Colombo

 

 

 

Leica M-Monochrom | Summicron-28 | ISO 1250

Bangkok

 

 

 

Now, having bought the M-Monochrom only last September, I shouldn't have bought another new camera at all, but as I was completing my second unpublished book project, Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems, which has both color and B&W pictures, I was beginning to miss shooting color as well as B&W. It was then that I read a posting by Charles Peterson in which he wrote that the color rendition of the M9 was somewhat like color slide film while that from CSMOS sensors was more like color negative film. This statement affected because I like Charles' color photography a lot, and I started looking at possibly buying the M-E. At that point I arrived in Paris (two weeks ago) and Jean-Marc at Maison du Leica told me that he had one black, new M9-P at the promotional price that had expired December 31. I jumped at it and, in effect, made the bet that the M9 color rendition is indeed more like color slide film, which is the type of color aI like, and that the M240 color rendition may be less to my liking. But, although I like the color that I am getting with the M9-P, it's premature to conclude whether I won my bet because it is only now, with the final release of the M240 that we can see the results of the final firmware and of the final profile for LR4/ACR.

 

On the M9-P itself, having shot less than 100 frames, all I can say is that I like the color that I can get out of it a lot, that it does remind me of somewhat of Kodachrome — and hence here is where the reference to Alex Webb comes in. As for Moriyama, there are a few of his color photographs that I like, but his new book, Color, has only a handful shots that I like and contains a huge number of undistinguished digital-loking color pictures that could have been published only be a hugely famous photographer late in his career. I doubt that this book would be a model or inspiration for anyone.

 

On my own influences, the first one was Don McCullin (his book of dark, brooding Somerset landscapes), which started me on serious photography, then Ralph Gibson, and then, most of all, Moriyama — and you can probably see this in my first book project, Bangkok Hysteria.

 

Now, with two new cameras, I expect to stop changing cameras, which Ihave been doing since 2006 when I moved from the Leica M6 to the Ricoh GRD, GRD2, GRD3, GRD4 and also the Ricoh GXR M-Module, not to speak of the Nikon D300 that I used with the 70-200/F2.8 lens for my Namibia and Botswana pictures, But the move from the M6 to the GRD was very important because it transformed my photograph. With the GRD, I never used a viewfinder, but used the LCD to establish the edges of the frame roughly and then to look directly at the subject when pressing the shutter — that made my style much more, direct, immediate and fluid.

 

Finally, to remark on the first bus picture in post no. 16: as my bus was stopped at a red light, a bus traveling in the opposite direction suddenly appeared, unexpectedly, just opposite my window, a few feet away, and all I had time to do was refocus, but didn't have time to chnage the exposure, which is pushed 2.65 stops in LR4. I like the colors and generally like the look of the M9 at ISO 640. Douglasf3 has written about his preference of pushing M9 shots in LR4 rather than setting the camera to a higher ISO. This picture is an unintentional example of the approach.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

Edited March 2, 2013 by malland

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[jorgerubia]

Mitch, Thank You for the informative reply. Yes "Bangkok Hysteria" is an amazing piece of work and I thank you for making the PDF freely available to us.

 

I too came to own the MM and the M9P after a long hard look at what I had shot with the M9 for the past 4 years. The MM was a "must" for me to focus my images more on composition and content. It will be a camera that I know will never leave my side in years to come. I too need to take time out and give it a worthy run - likewise, time and work restraints keep me just skimming the surface of its clear potential.

 

Funnily enough the additional recent M9P came about for similar reasons that you acquired yours - a new sample at a discounted "offer I could not refuse" and the thought that my trusty now really well used and abused M9 would not survive another 3 years. I do feel that the M9(P) is a camera that will still take good images beyond my capabilities for years to come and frankly I did not yet see a compelling reason from the files shown around the internet to order the new M when the CCD sensor is still amazing up to 640 iso and that I seldom use it beyond 320 anyway.I also agree with the Trannie vs Negative look of CCD vs CMOS from my Canon 5D2 and 5d3 files comparisons ... again perhaps, in time, we will all be proved wrong with this new M, but I did not feel I wanted to go through the testing and adapting period this year with a few personal projects on my mind... maybe the next upgrade or update next year or the following year will push me towards the new M, but for now I am more than well equipped to proceed with my current portrait projects.

 

I agree that the latest offering of Daido M was not as powerful as his previous stuff and that it feels more like transitional exploratory period of a mature artist's life. I still find his latest stuff revealing, even if not as inspirational and definitive as his previous offerings. He is still an amazing force in contemporary photography whose work is truly inspirational.

 

Again many thanks for the informative reply and I look forward to checking out your new/current projects.

 

Warm regards

Jorge

 

jorgerubiaphotography.com

[richfx]

I agree they look leica - and this is with no actual profiling on Aperture for the RAW file. I really didn't do much to them at all.

 

Thanks for your report, Rick. How were you able to process RAW / DNG files in Aperture? Or are these JPEGs?

Best,

Rich

Edited March 2, 2013 by rcerick

[Bundestrainer]

Thanks for the comments, guys. First, on getting the new cameras: the M-Monochrom was a no brainer — except for the price, which was a headache — because I could see that the files were so robust and malleable that I knew that I would be able to do what I wanted with them; what I was interested in was being able to process picture for high contrast while keeping a long mid-tone gradation. I continue to feel that the M-Monochrom is a stupendous camera: see my brief review here.

 

Although I bought the M-Mpnochrom in mid-September, I haven't shot nearly enough with it as I would have liked because I very busy last Fall. I like to shoot in series, but have only been able to do one, called Lanka Footsteps. BTW anyone interested in Sri Lanka history and politics would do well to read Robert Kaplan's excellent and facsinating Atlantic Monthly article Buddha's Savage Peace. The following are my two favorite pictures taken with the M-Monochrom: the first is from the Lanka Footsteps series.; the second one, the more I look at it, the more it makes me think of the Japanese novelist, Kirino Natsuo, three of whose books have been published in English translation: Out, Grotesque and The Real World.

 

 

 

Now, having bought the M-Monochrom only last September, I shouldn't have bought another new camera at all, but as I was completing my second unpublished book project, Paris au rythme de Basquiat and Other Poems, which has both color and B&W pictures, I was beginning to miss shooting color as well as B&W. It was then that I read a posting by Charles Peterson in which he wrote that the color rendition of the M9 was somewhat like color slide film while that from CSMOS sensors was more like color negative film. This statement affected because I like Charles' color photography a lot, and I started looking at possibly buying the M-E. At that point I arrived in Paris (two weeks ago) and Jean-Marc at Maison du Leica told me that he had one black, new M9-P at the promotional price that had expired December 31. I jumped at it and, in effect, made the bet that the M9 color rendition is indeed more like color slide film, which is the type of color aI like, and that the M240 color rendition may be less to my liking. But, although I like the color that I am getting with the M9-P, it's premature to conclude whether I won my bet because it is only now, with the final release of the M240 that we can see the results of the final firmware and of the final profile for LR4/ACR.

 

On the M9-P itself, having shot less than 100 frames, all I can say is that I like the color that I can get out of it a lot, that it does remind me of somewhat of Kodachrome — and hence here is where the reference to Alex Webb comes in. As for Moriyama, there are a few of his color photographs that I like, but his new book, Color, has only a handful shots that I like and contains a huge number of undistinguished digital-loking color pictures that could have been published only be a hugely famous photographer late in his career. I doubt that this book would be a model or inspiration for anyone.

 

On my own influences, the first one was Don McCullin (his book of dark, brooding Somerset landscapes), which started me on serious photography, then Ralph Gibson, and then, most of all, Moriyama — and you can probably see this in my first book project, Bangkok Hysteria.

 

Now, with two new cameras, I expect to stop changing cameras, which Ihave been doing since 2006 when I moved from the Leica M6 to the Ricoh GRD, GRD2, GRD3, GRD4 and also the Ricoh GXR M-Module, not to speak of the Nikon D300 that I used with the 70-200/F2.8 lens for my Namibia and Botswana pictures, But the move from the M6 to the GRD was very important because it transformed my photograph. With the GRD, I never used a viewfinder, but used the LCD to establish the edges of the frame roughly and then to look directly at the subject when pressing the shutter — that made my style much more, direct, immediate and fluid.

 

Finally, to remark on the first bus picture in post no. 16: as my bus was stopped at a red light, a bus traveling in the opposite direction suddenly appeared, unexpectedly, just opposite my window, a few feet away, and all I had time to do was refocus, but didn't have time to chnage the exposure, which is pushed 2.65 stops in LR4. I like the colors and generally like the look of the M9 at ISO 640. Douglasf3 has written about his preference of pushing M9 shots in LR4 rather than setting the camera to a higher ISO. This picture is an unintentional example of the approach.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

 

Very interesting to read about what drove you to your decision.

 

One question off topic though: was the Nikon D300 + 70/200 sufficient for Namibia. I will go there in April and consider buying the same equipment to complement my M9.

[jorgerubia]

Sorry, not in the slightest. Not to say that Mitch isn't a fine photographer. Every couple of weeks or so I study one photographer who's works I admire. This week for me is Moriyama. Where is the grunge (pussycat photo?) where are the blocked up shadows? Textural way? You must be confusing Moriyama with someone else.

 

Dear William

 

No, I have not confused the photographer. Its purely my own perception based on his many works ( e.g. much of his work in the "Bangkok Hysteria" series ) where there is tension, grunge ... and other powerful "stuff" that I have come to associate with DM. But then again it's my personal take on the work and how it affects me when I see his work. By the way, in a reply to my earlier post Mitch does make a point of the DM influence.

 

I accept that you probably have seen more than I have of DM's work live ( I only have 3 of his books in my library and seen only one live exhibition - though DM did work more towards books almost exclusively than for print exhibitions by my understanding), so it may be that I am misjudging or overstating the association. It merely reminds me of the great man's work and I find some of shots that Mitch has presented over the years engaging and powerful in an expressive manner that ignore rules of printing through often extreme tonal and grain pushing or calculated exaggeration - seems to me that both use the expressive materiality of the medium to get a personal/intimate documentary image across . Again, just my take on it.

 

I would love to hear from you where you are reading and if you are willing to share some sites or documents or critic on DM. I have his home site, a few Utube videos/interviews and a documentary following his work pattern... also, as prev stated, a few books on his work, but he does fascinate me and I would love to read some more on him.

 

Warm regards

Jorge

[Guest malland]

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...One question off topic though: was the Nikon D300 + 70/200 sufficient for Namibia. I will go there in April and consider buying the same equipment to complement my M9.

Actually, I also had the TC-14E (1.4x) tele-extender that I used occasionally and which worked well, at the loss of one stop. Subsequently, I bought the Nikon 200-400/f4 lens, but never used it because the trip was cancelled. I neglected to sell that lens, it's rather large and heavy, and I'll have grapple with doing so now.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

[Guest malland]

...I agree that the latest offering of Daido M was not as powerful as his previous stuff and that it feels more like transitional exploratory period of a mature artist's life. I still find his latest stuff revealing, even if not as inspirational and definitive as his previous offerings. He is still an amazing force in contemporary photography whose work is truly inspirational...

I have his Hawaii and Buenos Aires books, which I like. It's just his recent book called "Color" that I was reacting to.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

Lanka Footsteps [M-Monochrom/Sri Lanka]

[Bundestrainer]

Actually, I also had the TC-14E (1.4x) tele-extender that I used occasionally and which worked well, at the loss of one stop. Subsequently, I bought the Nikon 200-400/f4 lens, but never used it because the trip was cancelled. I neglected to sell that lens, it's rather large and heavy, and I'll have grapple with doing so now.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

 

Thank you. Maybe I'm just going to buy the 300/4 and use it with the D300 (without TC). Do you think this might work for photographing animals or isn't it flexible enough?

[Guest malland]

With the D300 that's going to give you an EFOV of 450mm, which is on the long side if you don't have a moderate telephoto lens. That's why the 70-200 is so useful.

 

—Mitch

[Bundestrainer]

With the D300 that's going to give you an EFOV of 450mm, which is on the long side if you don't have a moderate telephoto lens. That's why the 70-200 is so useful.

 

—Mitch

 

Yes, I know it's on the long side. So too long maybe. Thank you for your advice!

[Guest WPalank]

Dear William

 

No, I have not confused the photographer. Its purely my own perception based on his many works ( e.g. much of his work in the "Bangkok Hysteria" series ) where there is tension, grunge ... and other powerful "stuff" that I have come to associate with DM. But then again it's my personal take on the work and how it affects me when I see his work. By the way, in a reply to my earlier post Mitch does make a point of the DM influence.

 

I accept that you probably have seen more than I have of DM's work live ( I only have 3 of his books in my library and seen only one live exhibition - though DM did work more towards books almost exclusively than for print exhibitions by my understanding), so it may be that I am misjudging or overstating the association. It merely reminds me of the great man's work and I find some of shots that Mitch has presented over the years engaging and powerful in an expressive manner that ignore rules of printing through often extreme tonal and grain pushing or calculated exaggeration - seems to me that both use the expressive materiality of the medium to get a personal/intimate documentary image across . Again, just my take on it.

 

I would love to hear from you where you are reading and if you are willing to share some sites or documents or critic on DM. I have his home site, a few Utube videos/interviews and a documentary following his work pattern... also, as prev stated, a few books on his work, but he does fascinate me and I would love to read some more on him.

 

Warm regards

Jorge

 

Jorge,

 

I must have misunderstood your post. I thought it said you were referencing the color photos he had supplied in this thread. I have not heard of OS seen Bangkok Hysteria, so you are probably right if you made it clear that is what you were referencing.

[jorgerubia]

Sorry William, the Bangkok series was what I was referring to ... yes, all in B&W, My mistake in not clarifying my thoughts well enough.... and you're right, the color images supplied by Mitch have little to do with DM's last "Color" series at all. Again, my humble apologies.

 

Sincerely

Jorge

[Guest malland]

...I must have misunderstood your post. I thought it said you were referencing the color photos he had supplied in this thread. I have not heard of OS seen Bangkok Hysteria, so you are probably right if you made it clear that is what you were referencing.

The funny thing is that one could say that most of Moriyama's color pictures — apart from his first color book from around 1988 — don't really look like "Moriyamas" either.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project)

[newyorkone]

Best M samples so far. Thanks for posting them. Very promising. I guess I'll step into the back of the line now...

[satureyes]

I agree they look leica - and this is with no actual profiling on Aperture for the RAW file. I really didn't do much to them at all.

 

Thanks for your report, Rick. How were you able to process RAW / DNG files in Aperture? Or are these JPEGs?

Best,

Rich

 

Hiya,

Sorry about the delayed reply. I think this thread has gone in another direction and I didn't see your question until now.

 

In answer to your question Aperture pulled the raw files in no problem.

I assume they are the same uncompressed DNG that is within OSX natively.

 

Aperture seemed to handle them down. Even the raw fine tuning part said 'm typ 240', but I assume that's just from the exif

 

I'm not sure if there is any sort of update needed to OSX in the future. I think it's more of a case of updating aperture with perhaps more specific raw decoding tweaks than anything else.

 

R

[richfx]

Hiya,

Sorry about the delayed reply. I think this thread has gone in another direction and I didn't see your question until now.

 

In answer to your question Aperture pulled the raw files in no problem.

I assume they are the same uncompressed DNG that is within OSX natively.

 

Aperture seemed to handle them down. Even the raw fine tuning part said 'm typ 240', but I assume that's just from the exif

 

I'm not sure if there is any sort of update needed to OSX in the future. I think it's more of a case of updating aperture with perhaps more specific raw decoding tweaks than anything else.

 

R

 

Thanks, Rick. That's interesting. I shot with an MM several weeks ago and Aperture would not pull the DNGs in. I tried again today, with the same result.

Rich

[satureyes]

Thanks, Rick. That's interesting. I shot with an MM several weeks ago and Aperture would not pull the DNGs in. I tried again today, with the same result.

Rich

 

Think it is just because its the same DNG as the M9. The MM must have something different. Not techie to know what though!

[jonoslack]

Hi There

DNG files from the MM are a completely different issue - Adobe had to make an adjustment to the DNG standard, because no demosaicing is required. Apple are (apparently) working on making this adjustment, but just like the Fuji RAW files with their different CFA it is not simple and requires real coding changes.

 

The M files are proper ordinary DNG files, and they work perfectly well in Aperture.

 

This is a matter close to my heart, in that I had to give up my beloved Aperture for months whilst testing the MM. It's been a delight to go back to Aperture for the M.

 

all the best

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[satureyes]

Hi There

DNG files from the MM are a completely different issue - Adobe had to make an adjustment to the DNG standard, because no demosaicing is required. Apple are (apparently) working on making this adjustment, but just like the Fuji RAW files with their different CFA it is not simple and requires real coding changes.

 

The M files are proper ordinary DNG files, and they work perfectly well in Aperture.

 

This is a matter close to my heart, in that I had to give up my beloved Aperture for months whilst testing the MM. It's been a delight to go back to Aperture for the M.

 

all the best

 

Tadaa- thank you for that expert answer.. So in short there will be no changes needed to Aperture to work with the M240 files? Not even the RAW decoding?

 

Interesting that LR users are talking much about the profiling etc..