Monochrom owners, what's your though about the M240 reviews?

[Guest borge]

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The question is how much I lose regarding IQ at bw if I pick the M instead of MM?

 

The question is how big do you print, or how high resolution do you need?

Do you enjoy using the channel mixer or physical filters?

Do you enjoy post-processing and doing dodging and burning?

Do you want nice OOC images or nice negatives to work on?

[JPH1962]

The MM offers me a flexibility with the files that neither M9, nor 5DIII offer - and I doubt that the M240 will get there.

 

But anyway ... today is today and we will see what comes tomorrow... for the moment I am happy with M9 and especially MM and for very specific stuff the Canon.

 

The most important isn't the body anyway.... at the current level of IQ this is totally overrated.

 

Alle the best

 

JPH

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[tomasis7]

The question is how big do you print, or how high resolution do you need?

Do you enjoy using the channel mixer or physical filters?

Do you enjoy post-processing and doing dodging and burning?

Do you want nice OOC images or nice negatives to work on?

 

A3 is sufficient for me, resolution is never a problem for me, Rd1 6mpx is sufficient enough.

 

I prefer physical filters and quick post processing.Probably using Silver Effex. I'd like remove digitalness much as I can because my main camera is and will be M3 so long. I see the M as more pratical camera to replace Rd1, sometimes I use digital to take "proffesional" photos in color, often B&W in dark times where even pushed Trix film cannot do.

 

I'd like to have nice negatives to work of course. That you expect from me, film user

 

I'd like to have everything from single body, I guess that it is not possible. Im standing between M and MM regarding my requirements. Ideally the M and MM are perfect in my bag along with M3,M4

[Guest borge]

A3 is sufficient for me, resolution is never a problem for me, Rd1 6mpx is sufficient enough.

 

I prefer physical filters and quick post processing.Probably using Silver Effex. I'd like remove digitalness much as I can because my main camera is and will be M3 so long. I see the M as more pratical camera to replace Rd1, sometimes I use digital to take "proffesional" photos in color, often B&W in dark times where even pushed Trix film cannot do.

 

I'd like to have nice negatives to work of course. That you expect from me, film user

 

I'd like to have everything from single body, I guess that it is not possible. Im standing between M and MM regarding my requirements. Ideally the M and MM are perfect in my bag along with M3,M4

 

I would say that the MM is as close to a film workflow as you can get from a digital camera.

 

1. There is no white balance to worry about.

2. There is no channel mixing to worry about for B&W processing.

3. The files are basically negatives that needs processing.

4. The process of dodging and burning applies to the processing just like with B&W film.

5. There are little to no artifacts introduced even on heavily processed files - unlike sensors with color filters arrays.

6. You have to use physical color filters to achieve certain effects at the time of capture.

 

Since the DNG files from the camera are very basic negatives they are very quick to process. You don't have to correct anything (white-balance, hue, colors, etc). You just process it how you want it and that's it. The files are so sharp that they rarely even need any sharpening. So the files are very easy to work with and you can focus on the output only and not corrections on flaws that was introduced by the color filter array and poor white balance settings for example.

 

Basically the MM is the most analog digital camera you can purchase. And that's why I personally love it and wouldn't consider a M or M9 or anything else to replace it.

Edited February 23, 2013 by borge

[jaapv]

You cannot express the difference between the MM and any Bayer-filtered camera in percentages of quality. The files and results are simply different. You could make a comparison between the B&W output of the M9 and M240, and I would say the M240 B&W will be preferable.

Actually, the equation is quite simple - if you want to shoot B&W exclusively, the Monochrome is a no-brainer, unless you want to retain the option of playing with the colour channels. If you want to retain the option of colour, you must either get any colour-enabled camera and convert to B&W when applicable or complement the MM with an M9 or M240 or something else of your choice.

hello bw lovers.

 

The question is how much I lose regarding IQ at bw if I pick the M instead of MM?

 

I think I cannot choose MM since I truly hate the rear layout. If M can do 95% of MM output if color images converted to bw, then it is very tempting camera!

 

Silent shutter, long lasting battery, sleek rear layout etc. It'd be definite big upgrade for me who never owned anything else except M3 and Rd1.

 

Option for colors is good to have even my photography is 90% bw, the rest color.

 

 

5k £ is something I have to deal, it is a bit horrifying to pay up, hence no ways with two new bodies

 

Anybody is in same situation as me?

Edited February 23, 2013 by jaapv

[tomasis7]

Borge, I might wait for M240 MM then I dont want pay premium price to deal with that horrible rear layout. The M is much closer to film bodies in ergonomics , handling.

 

Oh well,..dilemmas.....But thanks for explaining the internal content in MM, it looks promising. I wait and see how they compare MM and M in BW conversions. I might want to make some compromises. I have b&w films in M3 to enjoy that "trouble free" process So I dont lose much in having both workflows: colors and b&w.

 

Your input is appreciated!

[tomasis7]

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Jappv, I understand. I may figure out for a cheaper camera for color and use MM exclusively for B&W. Lets wait for M240 MM then!! Iso 20 000?

[jaapv]

I must confess the remark about the rear layout leaves me somewhat nonplussed. It is about as simple as one can get - and the M is very similar but certainly more complex with extra buttons etc.

[Guest borge]

I must confess the remark about the rear layout leaves me somewhat nonplussed. It is about as simple as one can get - and the M is very similar but certainly more complex with extra buttons etc.

 

Yup. Personally - while I am shooting - I never use anything on the rear side of the MM anyway. LCD preview is disabled and I rarely have to change anything.

 

If anything the M will be worse than any film M ergonomically compared to the MM/M9. The M is thicker, bulkier and 100g heavier than the M9/MM for example. And the M9/MM is already thicker, bulkier and heavier than the film M's.

[tomasis7]

I must confess the remark about the rear layout leaves me somewhat nonplussed. It is about as simple as one can get - and the M is very similar but certainly more complex with extra buttons etc.

 

What it troubles me, that for example big wheel sticks out, I cannot to hold at the same way I do with M3 and Rd1. Those have very flat rear surfaces unlike MM if grip moulds are excluded in comparison. I cannot choose where to place my thumb on MM/ME. I was interested for M-E as budget camera and left the shop not happy after having tried this.

 

The early adopters of M8 might have hard time to understand me, I've been spoiled with perfectly flat rear

 

When I say rear layout, I do mean physical design. Like a chair to test on.

Edited February 23, 2013 by tomasis7

[jaapv]

In that case you may find the M worse. The LCD seems to stick out a bit more than the MM/M9/M8. According to Sean Reid the thumb position has improved, but due to the positioning of the Thumbie Wheel that may well depend on the shape and size of your hands. Speaking of which, I do find the Thumbie as produced by Steve a very good addition for this problem.

Edited February 23, 2013 by jaapv

[Guest borge]

What it troubles me, that for example big wheel sticks out, I cannot to hold at the same way I do with M3 and Rd1. Those have very flat rear surfaces unlike MM if grip moulds are excluded in comparison. I cannot choose where to place my thumb on MM/ME. I was interested for M-E as budget camera and left the shop not happy after having tried this.

 

The early adopters of M8 might have hard time to understand me, I've been spoiled with perfectly flat rear

 

When I say rear layout, I do mean physical design. Like a chair to test on.

 

I guess we all have different preferences. Personally I think holding any M without the Thumbs Up! is horrible ergonomically. I tried the Thumbs Up for two minutes on a friends camera and ordered one right away. It substantially improves the ergonomics on any M camera and I personally believe nobody should use an M without it :-)

 

That's also one of my worries about the M240. The "included" thumb rest and control wheel will mean that the Thumbs Up design will not work on these bodies. And the included thumb rest will not improve the ergonomics of holding the camera at all compared to a Thumbs Up which almost acts as a "hook" for your thumb.

 

The MM + Thumbs Up = perfection for my hands atleast.

[tomasis7]

You got convinced me about Thumbs up. I will give chance again. Carrying Thumb up and test on this would give weird look for shop personal

 

I dont have trouble with thicker lcd so long it is flat. I use M3 stroke lever as hookup similarly to Thumbup and when I take a shot, I hold thumb on rear surface, not on "hookup" in that case then it would felt cramped in hand when hookup/thumbup is placed far above.

 

Maybe I could give chance for a used M8 to experiment.

Edited February 23, 2013 by tomasis7

[Peter H]

It must be affected by the shape of your hand. I find the various Thumb things worse than useless, they just get in my way.

 

I like the current hand grip though, and hope the new one is equally effective, although it looks as though it may provide less of a grip, not having so much of an internal curve for your fingertips.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Peter H

[tomasis7]

It must be affected by the shape of your hand. I find the various Thumb things worse than useless, they just get in my way.

 

I like the current hand grip though, and hope the new one is equally effective, although it looks as though it may provide less of a grip, not having so much of an internal curve for your fingertips.

 

hm interesting! when Im able to test the M in the shop, I will start or join new thread based solely on ergonomics of M and MM bodies.

 

My hands are not "that manly", more of basketball player (well played a lot before).

[diogenis]

Tomasis, as Jaap says you cannot compare the two cameras.

Leica is no fool to produce a camera(the MM) only to see it cannibalized from a newer camera (the typ240).

If your shooting is 90% B&W, then your choice is the M. And for the extra mile buy a second hand M9 or even M8, both will serve you nicely. Really what are you waiting all this time?

 

Edit: you should not be intimidated by the form factor of either an MM or the M. The MM for me too, has also clearer lines because of the smaller screen

Edited February 23, 2013 by diogenis

[Guest WPalank]

Come on guys. Who cares what so and so-called expert professional says about anything? A 90 year old lady can own a Maserati and still get back and forth from the grocery store. But can she push it to the potential of Schumaker for example?

I use the Monochrom for B&W and the M9 for color work.

But since getting the MM with a 0.95 glued to the front (worth every penny), the M9 has been on a long, lonely Holiday.

 

I feel very lucky to be able to afford both camera systems. Now I have to get rid of a Texas Polo saddle that hasn't been used in years to help fund the 240. Any takers?