LUF Admin Posted March 26, 2007 Share #21 Posted March 26, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Mods. can we please make this a sticky thread. Thanks Guy Done! Andreas Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 26, 2007 Posted March 26, 2007 Hi LUF Admin, Take a look here Official Response from Leica on Laundry List. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 26, 2007 Share #22 Posted March 26, 2007 Great feedback, thanks for the legwork Guy. Of course, it also gives me lots of new ideas. For example.... hmm, so, I'm just thinking of this now -- maybe it's already been discussed. Since we don't have an ISO knob, I'd like a way to change ISO more rapidly. Here's one idea. If you press SET now and press up or down you get the ISO menu to appear. Then you have to up/down and press SET again. One simple implementation that I'd appreciate is this: HOLD SET and use up down to change ISO. Then release SET to commit. This is almost how it works now anyway. Sean has talked about this on many occasions and we need to keep this on the wish list , no doubt. I had one were you set the EV compensation and in the finder it flashes for a 1/2 second what that compensation is when you press the shutter. This way your fully aware of it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 26, 2007 Share #23 Posted March 26, 2007 Firstly, I would like to thanks Guy and Leica for this thread. Thank you very much. Secondly, I think lens selection in menus can be dangerous, but it would have beneficial effects on Zeiss and Voigtländer's performance on the M8. It is worth the risk. Thridly, the camera knows the lens attached, the exact model, and I would like to have this information written in the EXIF, not only the maximum aperture. The M8 knows the Summilux 50mm ASPH or the Summicron 28mm ASPH is in use, and this data can be included in the EXIF. It would be very useful for cataloging. In Aperture or Lightroom I might select pictures by lens!!! Fourthly, the number 5 is important to me: I would like to have a B&W preview without JPG files in the card. Moreover, in order to get B&W previews you are forced to change the type of pictures (DNG --> DNG + JPG). I would like to have a more direct access to color vs. B&W mode. Finally, I like the camera a lot, but the question number 11 scares many people. That is the most important point (IMHO). I would add another question: the Leica M8 compresses the original 16-bit information to DNG files of non linear 8-bits. I would prefer 10-bits non linear compression, even if the DNG files become a bit larger. Some information is lost in the highlights. I have found several well-exposed pictures with small highlight areas burnt, and I cannot understand why (I will post an example here). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 26, 2007 Share #24 Posted March 26, 2007 See the forehead. It is the same in the DNG file. The hystogram doesn't show any clipping, but it seems like some information is lost in the highlights. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/19830-official-response-from-leica-on-laundry-list/?do=findComment&comment=212632'>More sharing options...
carstenw Posted March 26, 2007 Share #25 Posted March 26, 2007 Four suggestions/comments: - For coded lenses, put the full string of the lens name somewhere in the EXIF, including max aperture of course: "Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 Asph." - I would like to have a full B&W workflow for DNG-only capture. When Leica fixed the "bug" which allowed us to switch to JPG, turn B&W on, and switch back to DNG, they removed a workflow which I was using about a third of the time. It should be added back, but properly. Ideal would be if the reviews would also stay in B&W. I don't want to mess around with deleting lots of little B&W JPG images. I would find it acceptable if the M8 would generate such images on the fly, in a B&W workflow, but they should not be in the main image folder, to avoid me having to make choices about them when using a card reader. - I think there is room for at least one digital-only lens: a 26mm f/1.4. This would replace the 35 Lux Asph on the M8, and I think that this lens is crucial. Beyond that it is a bit harder to see where it would make sense. Some want a faster this, others a faster that, but there is less agreement. - I would like faster access to ISO, such as using up/down arrow keys when the screen is off but the camera is on. The screen could come on and show the change in the menu, fine, but I don't want to fiddle with the menu system. Exposure compensation would also be very handy implemented like this. At the moment if I don't like the auto exposure, I have to remember the setting, jump to manual, and correct it myself. This was better on the later film cameras than on the M8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 26, 2007 Share #26 Posted March 26, 2007 The problem with ISO and Exposure Compensation (EC) is that, even if you can change them faster, you haven't direct information about the current status of those parameters. You must to turn on the LCD screen for cheching. All the cameras have this information clearly visible, including the Epson R-D1. I understand this point cannot be updated in the M8, but I would have prefered a bigger round-lcd status screen with SD capacity, battery capacity, ISO and EC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robsteve Posted March 26, 2007 Share #27 Posted March 26, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) See the forehead. It is the same in the DNG file. The hystogram doesn't show any clipping, but it seems like some information is lost in the highlights. It may have to do with the color space you have the M8 set to. I have not tested it on the M8 yet, but with the DMR, if you chose adobe 1998 as the color space the clipping warning came on later than it would with sRGB. In other words, is there clipping in the DNG when it is opened in Lightroom prior to converting to B+W? If you are using Capture One, it could be the profile causing the clipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannirr Posted March 26, 2007 Share #28 Posted March 26, 2007 Guy, Thanks to you and Leica for the terrific service. We won't all get what we each want or think is most important, but it's sure nice to know they are listening and considering input from others. Well done Leica. Number one on my personal list? For those of us who bought cameras after Jan 1 (due to Leica's limited availability) but are still wading through all these issues, how about extending the 30% (or even 20-25%) lens offer? Danni Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 26, 2007 Share #29 Posted March 26, 2007 Thanks All for your nice comments , it certainly is appreciated very much. Seriously though you should thank everyone here also, we are a great forum with wonderfull members that want to get the best we can and we do that in a postive way. I never been on a forum where great positive flow from the members to the OEM's exist. So please keep the idea's rolling and the great thoughts that you have . We may not get everything we ask but we can hopefully get the best solutions for us the end user and for Leica the developer of the M8. This is a team effort and the more we are engaged the better we are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 26, 2007 Share #30 Posted March 26, 2007 I don't want to mess around with deleting lots of little B&W JPG images... Carsten, you don't need to. When you put the card in a card reader sort by file type. All of the Jpegs will disappear to the bottom (or top) of the file window. Copy the DNGs, ignore the Jpegs and once copied, format the card in the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted March 26, 2007 Share #31 Posted March 26, 2007 It may have to do with the color space you have the M8 set to. I have not tested it on the M8 yet, but with the DMR, if you chose adobe 1998 as the color space the clipping warning came on later than it would with sRGB. In other words, is there clipping in the DNG when it is opened in Lightroom prior to converting to B+W? If you are using Capture One, it could be the profile causing the clipping. The clipping is in the DNG file. I open it using Lightroom. I can see the same clipping on the DNG (no color space of profile here) and on the JPG (exported to JPG sRGB). I can see the same problem in other cases too, with highlights on skins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted March 26, 2007 Share #32 Posted March 26, 2007 I'm not buying this explanation. They trust the user to turn lens detection on and off and make decisions about exposure compensation and ISO selection via menus all of which can be left at a setting that can screw up your photos if you forget about it. But they want this one feature to be decided by the camera in 'point and shoot' mode. Leica M is all about direct manual control by the photographer. This is a feature users should demand. If the reason for the lack of this option is an engineer wanting to protect us from ourselves then that would be even worse. When in doubt always let the photographer have control! you are absolutely right. it seems to me that leica does it to impede third-party lens use. what they accomplished in reality was a problem with their own vintage lenses that cannot be coded. i use old lenses because i like particular look (i mean, how the image is rendered, not how the lens looks on a camera lol). i wrote about this in my m8 review published more than a month ago, and there is no apparent reaction from solms another suggestion that i had was to use a scroll wheel as an exposure compensation dial. it seems that EV compensation via the main menu was one of the worst things that could be adopted from digital point-and-shoot cameras. it is amazingly inconvenient the way it was imlemented (in addition to meter inaccuracy) that Av mode has proven virtually useless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irakly Shanidze Posted March 26, 2007 Share #33 Posted March 26, 2007 I'm not buying this explanation. They trust the user to turn lens detection on and off and make decisions about exposure compensation and ISO selection via menus all of which can be left at a setting that can screw up your photos if you forget about it. But they want this one feature to be decided by the camera in 'point and shoot' mode. Leica M is all about direct manual control by the photographer. This is a feature users should demand. If the reason for the lack of this option is an engineer wanting to protect us from ourselves then that would be even worse. When in doubt always let the photographer have control! you are absolutely right. it seems to me that leica does it to impede third-party lens use. what they accomplished in reality was a problem with their own vintage lenses that cannot be coded. i use old lenses because i like particular look (i mean, how the image is rendered, not how the lens looks on a camera lol). i wrote about this in my m8 review published more than a month ago, and there is no apparent reaction from solms another suggestion that i had was to use a scroll wheel as an exposure compensation dial. it seems that EV compensation via the main menu was one of the worst things that could be adopted from digital point-and-shoot cameras. it is amazingly inconvenient the way it was imlemented (in addition to meter inaccuracy) that Av mode has proven virtually useless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 26, 2007 Share #34 Posted March 26, 2007 Some other stuff just poped up the top of my head, Guy. What are the odds of adding a 0.85x viewfinder to the M8? I have no interest in and never use anything below 35mm (or equivalent) ... this would make focusing with a 75 or a 90 a lot easier, good for you too especially when you're considering the 90 macro and 135 APO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 26, 2007 Share #35 Posted March 26, 2007 ...the way it was imlemented (in addition to meter inaccuracy) that Av mode has proven virtually useless. Meter innacuracy? Useless? I've been using the camera in AE mode most of the time since I bought the camera. The trick is to find a mid-tone somewhere in the frame, meter off that and lock the exposure. Just the same as with my M6, but with AE instead of manual exposure. Most of the time I just point and shoot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 26, 2007 Share #36 Posted March 26, 2007 I use the 1.25 on all the time from 28 up and for wider than the 28 I use a external finder but keep the 1.25 on for focusing. It seems to work pretty good for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 26, 2007 Share #37 Posted March 26, 2007 Simon, I'm sure that a .85 and .58 (or similar) viewfinder will appear at some point, maybe as M8 a la carte options, but for the moment I'd guess they are selling as many 'standard' M8s as they can make. New lenses? Well a f2.8 in the 15-18 range would be useful. I can't see Leica spending lots of money on developing a new ASPH 75mm Summilux, I doubt that the market for 75mm lenses is big enough for a Sumicron and a Summilux. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sisoje Posted March 26, 2007 Share #38 Posted March 26, 2007 I found #8 answer pretty "fake", too.... Seems like Leica is not honest with this at this time). We can all read between the lines that this issue is strictly $$: why support other brands (lenses) when they can sell more of their own brand (with coding)? It reminds me on the story about Canon not letting Zeiss put out any "Z" (wide angle) EOS wide angle lenses with manual focus (Distagon 21mm/2.8 anyone??), where Nikon owners got the a pretty line of ZF lenses and Company did not go broke (yet).... Another reason is totally elitistic atitude of Leica company towards any other who "dares" to produce (or buy and mount) a "M" lens that is not Leica. When I read about Guy's (great) effort to get the "official" answer for the Laundry list, this issue was on top of my mind. I am dissapointed. I hope this will eventually change... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted March 26, 2007 Share #39 Posted March 26, 2007 Steve, the current 75 lux has been discontinued. Guy, I'm using the HK supply magnifiers too .. I also have the Japanese MS Optical magnifiers, still ... you know, when you want more food, all you need to do is: CRY. LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 26, 2007 Share #40 Posted March 26, 2007 I found #8 answer pretty "fake", too....Seems like Leica is not honest with this at this time). We can all read between the lines that this issue is strictly $$: why support other brands (lenses) when they can sell more of their own brand (with coding)? It reminds me on the story about Canon not letting Zeiss put out any "Z" (wide angle) EOS wide angle lenses with manual focus (Distagon 21mm/2.8 anyone??), where Nikon owners got the a pretty line of ZF lenses and Company did not go broke (yet).... Another reason is totally elitistic atitude of Leica company towards any other who "dares" to produce (or buy and mount) a "M" lens that is not Leica. When I read about Guy's (great) effort to get the "official" answer for the Laundry list, this issue was on top of my mind. I am dissapointed. I hope this will eventually change... I think this will eventually happen but at the moment it is more a issue of putting there resources into getting the fixes done and getting there coded lenses to correct for the cyan cast. We should remember this is also a option item for them and just maybe put on the back burner like the EV / ISO settings on the dial. But let's keep this out there they more we ask than the better a chance to have it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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