Summarit - A second tier lens family?

[rramesh]

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Why, oh why is Leica continuing to market the Summarits as another product family? See Leica Camera AG - Photography - Lenses

 

I personally think the Summarits are no slouch and should be in the same category as other Leica lenses on their website under 'M System - Lenses' and not given a new category 'Summarit M Lenses'. It just gives the impression its different, albeit cheaper.

[iedei]

Why, oh why is Leica continuing to market the Summarits as another product family? See Leica Camera AG - Photography - Lenses

 

I personally think the Summarits are no slouch and should be in the same category as other Leica lenses on their website under 'M System - Lenses' and not given a new category 'Summarit M Lenses'. It just gives the impression its different, albeit cheaper.

 

i'm not sure i understand.....they are in the main M-lenses page you posted. They have a separate section probably because Leica is trying to promote them to a wider market, not because they are any less. If anything, this means they have their own separate page PLUS their inclusion in the M-lenses section.

 

I personally respect Summarits, but do find their build quality to be less than other Leica lines....but that's OK as they are significantly cheaper. Good value for money though.

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[250swb]

I think you could read the introduction to Summarit lens page as being very inspiring and tempting for the photographer. It cites traditional design characteristic's and simple construction as the philosophy behind them. It makes a change from Leica's hype over the mega Aspherical or super fast designs and if promoted right the Summarit range could grow up to be more important than it is.

 

If I were Leica I would build on this idea and do what CV successfully did and add some 'specialist' lenses, such as un-coated or single coated 50mm's for a softer rounder look, or go back into Leica tradition and add some more collapsible designs. The Summarit range would be the ideal place for a 'portrait' single coated 90mm for example.

 

Steve

[DirkB17]

Great idea, like it! Adding some special purpose lenses (e.g. like the Zeiss 50/1.5 Sonnar or similiar) would a fine supplement to the existing line up. Life is not about perfection.

[earleygallery]

They could even make some of the Summarit range available in LTM mount too.

[rramesh]

If I were Leica I would build on this idea and do what CV successfully did and add some 'specialist' lenses, such as un-coated or single coated 50mm's for a softer rounder look, or go back into Leica tradition and add some more collapsible designs. The Summarit range would be the ideal place for a 'portrait' single coated 90mm for example.

 

+1 An absolutely fantastic idea.

[Guest MarcRF]

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leica wont do this as it degrades the quality of the product. what many describe as character is mostly based on issues the lens has. be it focus shift, being prone to flare or just softer than modern lenses. leica is used to building the best with the summarits being only a compromise in cost due to no aspheric surfaces being used.

 

I have 2 of them and if I ever need another lens of the summarit focal lengths I will not hesitate and save up to buy one of these. they are awesome and are about the same level of the summicron versions in optical quality with f/2.5 being fast enough, especially with the M240 in mind.

[Fgcm]

 

I personally respect Summarits, but do find their build quality to be less than other Leica lines....but that's OK as they are significantly cheaper. Good value for money though.

 

Sorry, but I do not agree.

Build quality is the same level.

Leica guys just changed (improved) the helicoid mechanic.

New helicoid is bombproof and allows the very loose focus throw without any minimal free play. Summarits use a double coaxial tread. To fully understand it, you should see a disassembled lens. The design is very complex and very very very well manufactured.

 

If you need a stiffer focus, just ask your dealer to re-grease the focus helicoid with a thicker grease.

But you loose the most typical character of this family of lenses: a very fast, soft, silky focus ring.

 

The only true design flaw is the screw-on shade of 35 and 50. It does not lock well onto the lens barrel. To lock it I put a small cut of polyester film between the treads and the shade when I screw it on.

 

Later lenses share the same screw-on shade, but the o-ring locker is thicker and better lock the shade.

 

If you get accustomed to Summarits, you suddenly realize that older lenses are just less usable.

 

Try one and you will love it.

 

Franco

[iedei]

Sorry, but I do not agree.

Build quality is the same level.

Leica guys just changed (improved) the helicoid mechanic.

New helicoid is bombproof and allows the very loose focus throw without any minimal free play. Summarits use a double coaxial tread. To fully understand it, you should see a disassembled lens. The design is very complex and very very very well manufactured.

 

If you need a stiffer focus, just ask your dealer to re-grease the focus helicoid with a thicker grease.

But you loose the most typical character of this family of lenses: a very fast, soft, silky focus ring.

 

The only true design flaw is the screw-on shade of 35 and 50. It does not lock well onto the lens barrel. To lock it I put a small cut of polyester film between the treads and the shade when I screw it on.

 

Later lenses share the same screw-on shade, but the o-ring locker is thicker and better lock the shade.

 

If you get accustomed to Summarits, you suddenly realize that older lenses are just less usable.

 

Try one and you will love it.

 

Franco

 

i have tried a couple (35 and 50) and thought they were decent for the price. The rubber bits on the barrel for the focus ring really annoyed me.....didn't look or feel right. To me, that came across as an area where cost-cutting took place. As for internals, i'm sure you are correct; they are likely built to very high standards.

 

It's funny that even as an 'entry level'...the Summarit range is still very expensive, very capable, and well made compared to other lens manufacturers----in many ways, i think our standards are often set far too high.

[jbl]

.It's funny that even as an 'entry level'...the Summarit range is still very expensive, very capable, and well made compared to other lens manufacturers----in many ways, i think our standards are often set far too high.

 

I sometimes think the same, but having spent last weekend fighting with a lack of quality 50mm options on my DSLR, I'm thankful that at least I don't have to put up with that with my Leica lenses .

[DigitalHeMan]

The only true design flaw is the screw-on shade of 35 and 50. It does not lock well onto the lens barrel. To lock it I put a small cut of polyester film between the treads and the shade when I screw it on.

 

I've had to 'fix' this on mine as well, using a small strip of electricians tape (black, no residue) under the lens to keep the hood in place.

[philipus]

The only true design flaw is the screw-on shade of 35 and 50. It does not lock well onto the lens barrel.

 

I tried the 35 and to my hands it felt well built, but the one flaw I found was that the aperture ring is extremely narrow. I kept adjusting focus inadvertently setting the aperture, and this without gloves. The Summicron's aperture is at least twice as wide which makes a difference on lenses as small as these.

[rramesh]

From what I have seen and read in this forum about the Summarit range, is that there is nothing wrong with the lens design and assembly itself. It's actually very good and I've yet to see any serious criticism levelled here.

 

The only real comments are about the bodywork and packaging.

 

• Flimsy aperture ring.
  
• Does not ship with a hood or leather case.
  
• Rubber used as opposed to metal.
  
• Font used.
  

In short comes across as a second cousin.

 

If Leica were to address this and at the same price points, then we will have a fantastic range. One that will replace the Elmarits which they have progressively stopped manufacturing. (It won't be the same but at least it offers an entry level quality range for those starting off with the Leica).

[IWC Doppel]

I had a 75 Summarit and whilst it performed perfectly I did not particularly bond with the rendering and sold it. I personally didn't like the rubber on the focus ring it felt DSLR somehow. But that's just me.

 

The only thing regarding build I noticed was the figures and markings were not as nicely finished and did look cheaper side by side. I am not sure how successful they are I wonder if they were concerned about erosion of their main line of lenses when they marketed them

separately.

 

I would like to see some smaller non ASPH lenses be reintroduced with a theme like the Elmar-M 50mm. A lovely lens.

 

I see no reason why they couldn't introduce another 90mm Elmarit-M, 50 Elmar-M, a 35 Elmarit would be interesting or perhaps Summaron with revised designs to improve on the old. I can see reasons why they wouldn't

[MarkP]

Regarding the fantastic little 35 Summarit, and some comments made above:

 

The 35 (& 50) obviously don't have the rubber grip on the focusing ring.

 

It's small & compact.

 

Focus ring is smooth responsive to minimal effort with one finger but not so loose that it's easily moved accidentally.Doesn't have to move that FLE, Allows very easy precise focusing.

 

The aperture ring is not flimsy or loose, just is thin but I find the ergonomics excellent - it only needs a fingertip to adjust it, also with minimal effort.

 

The modern hood design and ergonomics are excellent (same as 35 Summilux FLE, 21 Summilux, 21 SEM, etc). The hood could be a bit more secure but easily fixed and hardly an issue with which to dismiss it as a serious lens.

 

Except for it only being f2.5, IQ is overall thought to be on par with the Summicron.

However, I recently compared the lens to my Summilux FLE - it does not compare, centre and especially to the edges, to the Summilux at equivalent apertures, esp above f4.0. But as KR writes, "sharpness isn't everything", so I still use the Summarit frequently. Especially for family and more casual photography because of its compactness and ergonomics. At times I also like the more 'traditional' rendering - very nice on the Monochrom.

 

The front ring font is the only thing that I don't like about this little lens. But then again I'm looking from behind the lens, not into it. I have yet to have a subject refuse my taking their photograph because the font on the front of the lens offended them

[MarkP]

 

I personally respect Summarits, but do find their build quality to be less than other Leica lines....but that's OK as they are significantly cheaper. Good value for money though.

 

Syed,

 

my 1.4/21 Summilux, 1.4/35 Summmilux FLE, and 1.4/50 Summilux all went back for adjustment, service, or repair whilst very new - but not my 35 Summarit !

 

I do accept that the tolerances of the faster and more exotic lenses are finer, but please don't try to convince me that me that Summarit build quality is inferior.

 

Regards,

Mark

[Fgcm]

In my opinion, most of the people who criticize Summarits never actually used one.

 

Ken Rockwell writes that he used a Summarit 90 only and never used other Summarits. He is honest.

 

It's funny, because he states that the lens he reviewed, a 90, is a great performer but he dislike the gummy focus ring and I see this reported by others speaking about 35 and 50, which do not have any gummy focus ring.

 

So, using KR words, do not read too many reviews and do out shooting.

Do not pixel peep and look at your entire picture.

 

Franco

[philipus]

Threads about the advantages or disadvantages of the Summarit lens line vis-a-vis the premium Leica lenses (and here one should of course remember that the Summarits cost as much as or more than their high-end Canon or Nikon focal length equivalents...) pop up regularly.

 

In virtually all threads, the criticism raised against the Summarits is about their build quality and physical features (rubber rings?! The horror) which many, in particular those who've used the premium Leica lenses, dislike.

 

The Summarits' proponents, however, point to to the rather amazing image quality for the money.

 

Often the comment is made that Leica has itself created the "second tier" impression of the Summarits by placing them in a separate part of their website. Others then reply that this is actually meant to highlight the Summarits' excellence as good-priced high performance lenses. It is interesting that Leica uses (inter alia) the M3 and even the CL in its Summarit brochure, again something which can be interpreted a number of ways.

 

Anyway. I recall this test by Guy Mancuso of the 35, 50 and 90 Summarits in terms of bokeh, contrast, saturation and highlights. To my comparably uneducated eyes there is very little difference between the Summarits and the "opponents", that is, the 35 Summicron IV, the 50 Summilux Asph and the 90 Summicron APO.

 

Note this was not a sharpness test, something which is quite natural given that the images were not shot in a lab/studio. The images were also made with an M8 so corner performance is not shown. And yes these are internet jpgs. Setting all these aspects aside, which I think one can given the purpose of the test, the images do give a good impression of rendering, out of focus performance etc and can therefore be of assistance in forming an opinion about whether the Summarits are second tier in terms of image quality.

 

(As an aside, personally, I believe there's too much focus on sharpness these days, but that's another discussion. In real-world usage I have only very rarely found lack of absolute sharpness to be the main reason why an image is or is not one that I like and will return to over the years).

 

I accept that we all have preferences when it comes to rendering, but to my eyes there is very little difference between the Summarits and the other lenses in this test. Whatever differences there are certainly don't place them in a second tier with respect to image quality.

 

In building my own Leica system I seriously considered the Summarits because I would get so much more for the money. Since I use film exclusively, however, I decided that faster lenses would be of real value to my photography. It took (much) longer to save up the money for my two Summiluxes but I am happy that I did because I've been able to photograph in situations I wouldn't otherwise have been able to.

 

Still, I am certain that had I used a digital M my first lenses would have been the 35 and 50 Summarits.

 

I have the 50 Asph and absolutely love it on film but looking at the test results at f2.5 I can't see that the Summilux's performance warrants the (approx.) 1800€ price difference. That is not an insignificant sum of money. This comment simplifies matters, naturally. But it bears repeating, as a matter of OOF/bokeh/rendering as evinced by this test, I would have been happy with the Summarit's performance. Incidentally, it is really interesting to compare the Summarit at f2.5 with the Summilux at f2 and even f1.4.

 

These are just my thoughts but in every test of the Summarits that I have seen I have been consistently impressed by their performance.

 

Cheers

Philip

[Keith (M)]

Don't understand what all the fuss is about. I bought a Summarit 75mm two years ago and it is an absolutely fabulous lens (apart from the screw-on lens hood - would prefer a sliding one like on my Elmarit-M 90mm). Example performance below.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[thighslapper]

I always assumed the Summarit range was there to give you something to buy when the lens you wanted was permanently on back-order and unavailable .....

 

Seriously though, I've never seen a bad word about the image quality or value for money (a first for Leica) ....