gniquil Posted February 7, 2013 Share #1 Posted February 7, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi All, Got a question. About an year ago I bought a 28/F2.8. With proper light, this is an AWESOME lens. Nevertheless, to this date, I still can't use it correctly. What I mean is the image you see in the range finder never really match the final picture you take. Even though the framelines are there, the edge of the picture gets distorted somewhat due to the nature of being a 28. The final image always comes out either 1. a bit more "spacious" than what I originally thought, or 2. people's faces stretched. This is bothering me so much that I am considering getting an external viewfinder attachment for my M9 (which I absolutely abhor), or even going back to the 35. However, some of happy accidents came out to be so brilliant that I really don't want to give it up. Anyone else has the same problem and how did you overcome it? Is there a way to train your eyes to see in a 28 perspective? Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 7, 2013 Posted February 7, 2013 Hi gniquil, Take a look here how to properly use a 28. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
algrove Posted February 7, 2013 Share #2 Posted February 7, 2013 IMHO, it is not the best lens to use when shooting people's faces, up close. It is gorgeous for landscapes or zone focusing for candid/street photography. I mess up too from time to time, but I got so I do not have to use a VF. Just think how the lens will work on the new M! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted February 7, 2013 Share #3 Posted February 7, 2013 assuming you're using the M9. the frame line is optimized at 1 meter. Meaning if you focuses at 1m, your image will be exactly like what you see in the frame line. closer than 1m, it shrinks to slightly within the frame line, longer than 1m-infinity, it stretches outward outside the frame line. About the stretched faces, that will have to do with distortion and perspective associated with that focal length. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted February 7, 2013 Share #4 Posted February 7, 2013 This is exactly why I'm very happy with the view finder frames in the M8u, they are set to match perfectly at 2meters, that is much more usable for my type of photography with a range finder camera. I just can't understand Leicas reasoning for not implementing that on the M9 versions, interesting to see how the M will be set up... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arild Posted February 9, 2013 Share #5 Posted February 9, 2013 This is exactly why I'm very happy with the view finder frames in the M8u, they are set to match perfectly at 2meters, that is much more usable for my type of photography with a range finder camera. I just can't understand Leicas reasoning for not implementing that on the M9 versions, interesting to see how the M will be set up... I think someone around the announcement at Photokina said it would be 2m, like on the M8, and M9 Titanium, if I´m not mistaken. This could also be my memory tossing things around, as there indeed were an unhealthy amount of chatter around the M240 features both in here and in other fora. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 9, 2013 Share #6 Posted February 9, 2013 ... interesting to see how the M will be set up... To 2 meters, same as M8.2 and M8u fortunately. I don't think i would have ordered one otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl Posted February 9, 2013 Share #7 Posted February 9, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've never understood the 1m/2m controversy, can someone explain it to me? I know it's a big issue between the M8 and M9, but I don't get it. Thanks, -jbl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 9, 2013 Share #8 Posted February 9, 2013 When they are optimized for 2 meters (M8.2, M8u, M-240), instead of 0.7 or 1 meter for other M bodies, the framelines are more accurate at 2 meters and further distances. See http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/94963-viewfinder-frame-lines-m8-8-2-a.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likalar Posted February 12, 2013 Share #9 Posted February 12, 2013 Frank, when you mentioned that people's faces are stretched, are you referring to people with horizontal stretching at the left and right sides of the image? If so, that is common with any lens much wider than 35mm. I just try to avoid having faces on the sides of the frame at medium to close distances. When I am included in group snapshots, I always avoid the edges of the group, as my face is wide enough as-is. ;-) As far as frame line accuracy: Consider the viewfinder's frame lines as an estimate of the image captured. With practice, you'll get good at knowing the framing traits of each focal length in regards to the frame line estimate. Chimping is not a sin. Best wishes. Larry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 12, 2013 Share #10 Posted February 12, 2013 Anyone else has the same problem and how did you overcome it? Is there a way to train your eyes to see in a 28 perspective? Experience, use it, the same thing apply's with any lens. But your dilemma is a basic fundamental rule of photography, lenses have their own characteristic's and over the years simple universal laws have been written. Of course some of the best photography is when the photographer understands the rules and knows how to break them, but because of things like distortion wide lenses are used for landscape, medium telephoto for portraits, and long telephoto for things you can't drive to. Using an accessory finder will not give any better view than through the viewfinder of the camera, neither are made ('calibrated' if you like) to mimic the distortion of a particular 28mm lens, so you will learn nothing by using one. Your best bet is to take only the 28mm lens out for a day and use it. See what it does for landscape, see what it does for street pictures. And as it is people pictures that seem to be the problem look at other photographers who's unofficial trademark is using a 28mm on their Leica. Start with Henry Wessel for people and urban landscape https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=henry+wessel+photography&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=m_cZUamFH-mp0AX_iICAAw&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=2048&bih=985 and Garry Winogrand for people and use of perspective and angle https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=garry+winogrand&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=dfgZUfKfI-SU0QXr5YDwAg&sqi=2&ved=0CJABEIke&biw=2048&bih=985 Steve 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted February 12, 2013 Share #11 Posted February 12, 2013 +1 practice makes perfect. It's an absolutely delightful focal length and I am thoroughly enjoying my Summicron. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest arild Posted February 12, 2013 Share #12 Posted February 12, 2013 I have a 28 summicron and nothing else. It´s marvellous! I´ve used that lens and my M9 for practically all of my photography since I got it in october, and will continue to do so until temptation to get a 50 or 90mm becomes too strong. I was used to "seeing in wide angle", as I used a 24mm on my full frame Canon before this, and that has helped a bit, but 2.5-3k photos with the 28mm later, I can almost say I´m proficient at guesstimating the field of view before the viewfinder meets the eye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted February 12, 2013 Share #13 Posted February 12, 2013 The wider you go, the more distortion is built into the image. Actually it is a whole lot like maps where it is fairly simple to take a small area of a globe and put it on a plane. When you try to image the entire hemisphere of a globe on flat surface, there is hugh distortion. Look up the many different kinds of projections there are. Some end up like ellipses. Some end up looking like banana peels, mercator. Same problem when you try a panorama by swinging the lens with a swing lens camera or rotating over a fixed point. The big cigar shape emerges. If you do a pano with a shift lens, the whole problem goes away. If we could image on the inside of a sphere rather than on a flat plane, the whole issue would also go away. In the mean time, do not put faces or circles in the corners and learn the true boundaries of the image with frame you have or resort to a slr. Mind you the circles in the corners will still be there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 16, 2013 Share #14 Posted February 16, 2013 The wider you go, the more distortion is built into the image. Actually it is a whole lot like maps where it is fairly simple to take a small area of a globe and put it on a plane.When you try to image the entire hemisphere of a globe on flat surface, there is hugh distortion. Look up the many different kinds of projections there are. Some end up like ellipses. Some end up looking like banana peels, mercator. Same problem when you try a panorama by swinging the lens with a swing lens camera or rotating over a fixed point. The big cigar shape emerges. If you do a pano with a shift lens, the whole problem goes away. If we could image on the inside of a sphere rather than on a flat plane, the whole issue would also go away. In the mean time, do not put faces or circles in the corners and learn the true boundaries of the image with frame you have or resort to a slr. Mind you the circles in the corners will still be there. Just thought this was so good it could be posted twice! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 16, 2013 Share #15 Posted February 16, 2013 (edited) I love how the 28mm lens pretty much uses up all of the VF space- as if it's the true prime lens for the camera. It is hard to get used to the changes in perspective- but 28mm is also so sharp, large DOF, when it is good it is great- for landscape I really love it- for perspective it is important to try and keep the camera level in most situations (I think). And whilst the focal length does un-naturally distort subjects- for instance these three lovely ladies look quite odd indeed- with enlarged noses, humped backs, etc- I still think the image can be interesting and it is good to be able to get in more of the background- not sure if my subjects agree: well that's just too bad if you go parading around like that on the beach: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 16, 2013 by jaques 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/197741-how-to-properly-use-a-28/?do=findComment&comment=2244781'>More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 16, 2013 Share #16 Posted February 16, 2013 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/197741-how-to-properly-use-a-28/?do=findComment&comment=2244794'>More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 17, 2013 Share #17 Posted February 17, 2013 Wait a minute, you can afford a Leica a 28/2.0 lens, but no tooth brushes for your lady friends? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 17, 2013 Share #18 Posted February 17, 2013 Smoking camels i guess. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted February 17, 2013 Share #19 Posted February 17, 2013 In my opinion camels with any lens will look distorted. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 17, 2013 Share #20 Posted February 17, 2013 Good point! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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