Leica M8 is a good Buy?

[bonatto]

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Looking forward to sub $1200 mint M8's!

[skinnfell]

no. you're pricing is waaaaaaaaaay off and you're giving out bad advice, really.

 

pricing is between $1600 and $2400 for nearly all M8s on sale.....ranging from the heavily used all the way to mint. M8.2s still carry a premium, obviously.

 

 

I was referring to what I personally think it is worth, not what it is going for on evilbay.

 

I sold my (mint) M8 for about $2700 three years ago.

Should it really cost the same today with a massive amount of used M9s on the horizon?

Come summer and we might see the prices I stipulated.

 

Even today, I see M9s going for $4500 (not ebay). What will they go for then the M240 comes in for full? In my opinion the M9 really IS worth four times that of a M8.

(Resolution, quietness, speed, battery life, manual lens coding, Iso, and not to mention full frame. But we all know this)

 

So my advice to the OP was rather HOLD than BUY.

 

I think right now is a bad time to buy a M8 at today´s prices. That is why I gave such advice.

Edited February 4, 2013 by skinnfell

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[lct]

Don't count me in please.

[dpitt]

I think right now is a bad time to buy a M8 at today´s prices. That is why I gave such advice.

 

You may be right, but then it is even a worse time to buy an M9

It is a good time to buy lens(es) IMO

 

My take on this is that the M9 price will take the biggest hit. How much is hard to say...

M8 prices might surprise, because it is reaching levels where I would never sell mine for.

Around 1000$ for well used M8 might be possible, but I would never sell at that price.

 

1000$ would hardly buy me a decent Leica M lens and the M8 is very useful as backup for M9 or higher. It is more complementary than a second M9 and lots cheaper.

- crop factor means more DOF and larger reach, less critical focus, so a bit easier to use with 135 mm and it gives you 180 mm eq. in Leica quality

- Having one body with a tele and one with normal or wide lens in the bag is IMO ideal. Much faster than switching lenses on one body.

- B&W is great and according to some better than M9

- it is less valuable you can take it everywere without hesitation. Even places where I would not dare take my M9, let alone a new M240 if I would buy one.

 

Bring on those USD 1000/ EUR750 M8's

I think bottom price for a good well used M8 will be more like EUR 1000 - 1200

 

If you have the money. Buy M8 now, get shooting and enjoy the M world. After a year or more when the dust is settled, buy a second M if you still feel like it. If you buy the M9 in a year, you might have saved $1000 or more. So your M8 would be virtually free...

Edited February 5, 2013 by dpitt

[iedei]

In my opinion the M9 really IS worth four times that of a M8.

(Resolution, quietness, speed, battery life, manual lens coding, Iso, and not to mention full frame. But we all know this)

 

.

 

nonsense. there is no M9s "worth four times" the price of any M8. if you think that....then you're posting on the wrong thread.

 

the M9 prices are falling much, much faster than M8 prices. Currently the M9 is worth about 2 times as much as an M8. that's about ok....but even then, the M8 is good enough that getting an M9 isn't really justified in performance or in reasons.

Edited February 5, 2013 by iedei

[unclebob]

What should I expect from a Leica M8 with only a shutter count of 500?

 

Too good to be true? Refurb? It came from a ebay seller with a 5000 positives and a 100% feedback.Comes with a 14 day return policy?

 

No paperwork. Came with extra charger. It fires up and I can scroll the menu. Lens arrives tommorrow.

 

Anything I need to look at in particular... or just hold my breath each time I take an image?

[hepcat]

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You can expect to be happy with your new camera. Run it through its paces before the 14 days are up and have a ball. Like most electro-mechanical devices it's pretty much WYSIWIG... it'll either work or it won't. Sounds like you got a good buy.

[JeTexas]

I sold my M8 with a handgrip in December for $1500. I was really hoping to get $2000, but as it had almost 30,000 actuations on it, everyone wanted to lowball me on the offers as they "had seen one on eBay with only 2000 actuations for $1800" or whatnot.

 

I did love the M8, BUT I would never suggest buying one for the following reasons:

 

- Snap off a couple shots, and you're waiting up to a full minute for the red light to stop blinking, so the camera can shoot again.

 

- The shutter is ridiculously loud. It's the howitzer blast of camera shutters.

 

- Most of them have red lines across the photos in underexposed shots.

 

- The black is purple IR issue.

 

- You can't shoot above ISO 640

 

- At this point if it breaks, it's not worth fixing.

 

Now don't get me wrong, this camera was a workhorse the couple years I had it. However, I was constantly waiting on it. Just snapping a couple headshots and then having the sitter take a look at the screen was noticeably slow and annoying. I would always have to explain, "Sorry, we have to wait until this red light stops blinking to see them."

 

Originally I didn't want to sell my M8 until I had the new M in my hands, but I bought the Sony NEX-6 in November to play with video, and I was like, oh why in the hell have I been fumbling along with this dinosaur machine?!!! I miss the rangefinder from time to time, but I don't miss the M8 at all.

 

For the price of an M8 you can probably get an NEX-6 or an X-E1 along with a user M2.

[unclebob]

I passed on a m2 a few weeks ago for $600 that the owner guaranteed was a good user, and it had a return policy.

 

Pretty ironic that I have more faith in 50+ year old mechanical dinosaur than a whiz bang diggie body.

 

 

Don't think that there wasn't an internal debate of the merits of the M8 vs M6/50mm 'Con or M3/50mm 'Lux.

 

I have always given up on the M system in the past because I didn't have time to dedicate to smoothing out that learning curve. Back then there was weddings and sports and other needs for the money.

 

In two weeks, my story could be different.

 

Today, it's just hobby and fun and looking forward to giving the camera a workout.

[hepcat]

Don't think that there wasn't an internal debate of the merits of the M8 vs M6/50mm 'Con or M3/50mm 'Lux.

 

I have always given up on the M system in the past because I didn't have time to dedicate to smoothing out that learning curve. Back then there was weddings and sports and other needs for the money.

 

In two weeks, my story could be different.

 

Today, it's just hobby and fun and looking forward to giving the camera a workout.

 

Bob, the learning curve is pretty short, and you'll be used to the camera in short order. The camera simply is what it is, and it's not all that different from an analog M.

 

The things that JeTexas are (mostly) true, but his opinions are pretty subjective. The shutter, for example, is louder than an M4, but nothing like the mirror slap in a mechanical SLR body. It just sounds like a standard Copal vertical metal shutter. The ISO 640 issue... I shoot at 1250 from time to time and with a little LR tweaking get some nice images... but I mostly shoot at ISO 160/320 anyway, so it wouldn't make a difference for me if the camera could do ISO 10,000 I probably wouldn't have a use for it. It does take a while to write files, but even that's not objectionable most of the time.

 

Enjoy the camera.

[geotrupede]

M8, very cool camera, crop, but at the same time very best portion of the lens used - see 12 and 15mm CV. with M8 are just outstanding. a bit loud. but 1/8000th of a second, which may be useful at times. Flash synch at 250, which is good too.

colours are good.

a very actual and well built camera, with no reliability issues (unless you drop it).

The screens has an issue and will create a central halo. this cannot be fixed and you have to live with it.

 

M9, an improved version. better ISO (maybe just because of the additional megapixels), higher res, but issues with wide lenses in the corners (red banding). You do not need the UV cut filter (reflection issue on the M8). The LCD is really crap and the image looks much worse than on the M8 (I believe this is due to scaling the image from a different MP size to the same LCD resolution).

 

 

Overall the M8 is something that could make you very very happy.

But the M9 will at some point become your next step, perhaps the M.

 

 

If I could suggest, go for the M8, save some money and start dreaming on the M.

One day you will upgrade without issues of red corners and the M9 crap LCD.

 

 

In any case, all the best

G

[steveclem]

Wrong thread,oops.

[dpitt]

The things that JeTexas are (mostly) true, but his opinions are pretty subjective. The shutter, for example, is louder than an M4, but nothing like the mirror slap in a mechanical SLR body. It just sounds like a standard Copal vertical metal shutter. The ISO 640 issue... I shoot at 1250 from time to time and with a little LR tweaking get some nice images... but I mostly shoot at ISO 160/320 anyway, so it wouldn't make a difference for me if the camera could do ISO 10,000 I probably wouldn't have a use for it. It does take a while to write files, but even that's not objectionable most of the time.

 

Enjoy the camera.

 

I agree completely. There was a time people were happy with ISO 400 film only. With an aperture of F1.4 you do have an advantage of 3 stops over a modern day DSLR kit zoom with F4.0.

Add the ability to shoot at 1/15 or 1/8 and you have an other 1-2 stops advantage over a DSLR. So if you do not go above ISO 400 + 4 stops = 6400 on one of those kit DSLRs you are fine with the M8 and an old Summilux

Every camera is best at its base ISO, so it is 160 for me most of the time on the M8

 

And the shutter sounds loud in your own ears, but most subjects are less distracted by it than by the sound of a mid size DSLR.

[dpitt]

And as long as you use the UV/IR filters, colors are even less influenced by IR than on the M9 without filter

[dpitt]

Bottom line for me is that the M8's rangefinder is as good as any other Digital leica M.

The base ISO IQ is the best around this price. Crop factor is one of the smallest crops around at 1.33.

 

Since I want a great rangefinder and auto exposure, there is really no other digital competitor in its price range. Did not try the Fuji yet...but I have read it is not in the same IQ class.

 

Closest alternative for me is the M7 and that is analog

[lct]

Never got red lines so far and and i don't have to wait during red light blinkings, what's this story? My M8.2's shutter noise is almost as quiet as my film Ms', the motor noise is the same as the M9's and the IR issue boils down to replacing UV by UV/IR filters. Little price to pay for one of the very best IQ available IMHO. Wearing red noses may be painful for sure but otherwise i just miss full frame for fast wides, a silent motor and cleaner 1250 iso.

[designed]

My experience mirrors more that of JeTexas'. I've had a good run with the M8, some stunning images during that time, but the time has caught up with the camera. To put it simply: I like the mechanical M8, it's the electronics that I don't love and even less so these days.

 

I've mostly stuck with the M8 as there are no real options to replace it with: the M9 is too expensive, Fuji X is a trio of problems (not impressed by X-lenses, M-lenses seem to smear, no rangefinder, what RAW support?) and NEX-6 seems a bit conservative in the image quality.

 

We'll see if the longer days bring some warmth to the rangefinder beast again, but it sure as hell has been a difficult winter compared to previous ones.

[sfage]

If I had 2k in my hand, I wouldn't touch an M8. They are not worth the money people pay for them. A 5d2 is much better value for the money, quite frankly. Double the MP plus video, for "two things".

 

I use R lenses upon mine. And before anyone says anything about the Canon, I have posted images in the gallery taken with the $178 40mm pancake lens.

 

People commented about how wonderful Leica glass is.

 

Know what I mean?

 

On top of all of that, a 5d2 with an Elmarit 60 macro is a far more versatile set-up than an M8/50 cron.

Edited February 9, 2013 by sfage

[dpitt]

On top of all of that, a 5d2 with an Elmarit 60 macro is a far more versatile set-up than an M8/50 cron.

 

Leica M has never been about versatility, it is more about portability and pure IQ. The setup with the 5d2 produces very good results and the body is about the same price now as the M8, but that is where the comparison stops.

 

I can not put the 5d2 with Elmarit 60 in my jacket pocket like I do with M8 and a small lens like 40cron, 28 Elmarit, 50 Elmar, 35lux...

 

I can not see around the frame with the 5D or any reflex like I do with a RF. And the M8 with 50 is much easier to use with sunglasses on...

 

And 5d2 is certainly not as good 'value' as the M8 because it will loose value much faster than the M8. Best proof is that when I bought my M8 almost 3 years ago it cost me 1500 Euro.

The 5D MkI was then around 1300 Euro, the 5D Mkii was then about 2400 I believe.Correct me if I am wrong...

 

I recently bought the 5D MkI for 400 Euro to do some macro and long tele work with R lenses. So I do see some use for it. Still, my M8 is worth about 1200 Euros now. Actually it was worth more because I could trade up for an M9, but that is an other story. (or maybe not, because I do not think Canon would offer me a 5D MkII if I send in a broken/unfixable 5D MkI)

 

I will probably buy a 5D MkII for 400 Euro in 2 years time and I think the M8 will then still go around 800 or so.

 

Mind you, this is not because the 5D is inferior, but mostly caused by market supply and demand, and also by the faster update cycle of Canon.

 

It is just very hard to compare a Leica M with any DSLR IMO.

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[hepcat]

A 5d2 is much better value for the money, quite frankly. Double the MP plus video, for "two things".

 

On top of all of that, a 5d2 with an Elmarit 60 macro is a far more versatile set-up than an M8/50 cron.

 

Then you should, without a doubt use your 5D2. It is not, however, for ME a better value for the money. It is a DSLR, not a bright-line rangefinder digital camera. It's large and has lots of buttons and menus and the lenses are generally much larger than rangefinder lenses. I once had an EF 50mm f/1.0 L lens. It weighed two pounds. My CV 50mm f/1.1 weighs less than a pound. As a matter of fact, the Canon is the antithesis of what I'm after. I recently sold my extensive DSLR kit and bought back into Leica for those reasons.