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M240 long exposures


mtomalty

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The last spec I saw put the maximum shutter speed at 60 seconds, not long at all (the M9 was 240 seconds, also rather short).

 

If that includes noise reduction it indicates some issue with the sensor for long exposures. If that's without noise reduction, it's a fine number, and hopefully will be raised significantly (whether the camera does NR or not). It's the only on-paper disappointment relevant to me with the camera.

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Does anyone know if there is an option to turn off long exposure noise reduction? Also, if there is a 60 second maximum exposure, this is a step backwards from the M9, which is 240 seconds.

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Does anyone know if there is an option to turn off long exposure noise reduction? Also, if there is a 60 second maximum exposure, this is a step backwards from the M9, which is 240 seconds.

 

I don't know why they would reduce the max exposure. CMOS suffers less through long exposures than CCD.

 

Actually, the maximum exposure time for the M9 can be considerably longer by using the equivalent to a T function - set self timer in B mode. The shutter will fire at the end of the timer delay and stay open until the shutter is pressed again. I think the maximum black frame is limited to 240 seconds.

 

The S should have a firmware update option to skip the black frame. Perhaps the M240 can have the same.

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I don't know why they would reduce the max exposure. CMOS suffers less through long exposures than CCD.

 

Actually, the maximum exposure time for the M9 can be considerably longer by using the equivalent to a T function - set self timer in B mode. The shutter will fire at the end of the timer delay and stay open until the shutter is pressed again. I think the maximum black frame is limited to 240 seconds.

 

The S should have a firmware update option to skip the black frame. Perhaps the M240 can have the same.

 

There really is no reason not to provide the option to turn off black frame. I didn't know that the S had this, but since the M has the same Maestro processor, we know it can be done. As for maximum exposure time, I have tried the self/timer/B setting when I was trying to do some star shots and the M9 will close the shutter after 240 seconds and then do a 240 second black frame.

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The M still does a dark-frame subtraction since it is still the best way to deal with the inevitable hot pixels; replacing a CCD by a CMOS sensor doesn’t change that.

 

I understand that Michael, and most times dark frame is fine. But the same logic applies to the S and it allows turning off black frame. I am not suggesting that dark frame NR be eliminated. It can even be the default. But why not an option to turn it off for the M?

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Thanks for the info

Hopefully, there will be an option to implement the dark frame exposure voluntarily

I frequently shoot in situations where exposure times exceed 2 seconds

With a camera such as my 5D3's, noise is not a problem and I can double my shooting

output in time sensitive situations over my M9 just by the sheer fact of not having to wait

for dark frame exposure

I would like to be ale to eliminate the 5d3 when the M starts shipping but little details such

as this make the decision more difficult

 

Mark

Mark Tomalty Fine Art and Stock Photography

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Well, on the M9 black frame reduction only is used for shots whee the result would be useless without it as you can see on the LCD when it happens. I am sure Leica will implement it the same way in the M. As a method of noise reduction for this type of noise it is far superior to reduction by blurring or interpolation.

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I'm going to have to,respectfully, disagree.

I own and use both systems (M9 and Canon 5D3) and in absolutely no way is the Canon

file compromised by not implementing black frame subtraction following primary exposure.

For clarities sake, I'm not talking multi-minute exposures but exposures in the 5-30 second range.

 

Mark

Mark Tomalty Fine Art and Stock Photography

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Of course, a CMos does not heat up like a CCD and has per-pixel balancing on the sensor so it does not need a black frame (or nitrogen cooling) like a CCD. We do not even know at what exposure time this fixed pattern noise might become a problem on the M240.

My point was that the system on the M8/9 is not there to annoy the user but to produce a good quality image for one which would be severely compromised otherwise.It would be completely useless to switch it off on the M9

The implementation the M CMosis will certainly be different, as it will not kick in when it is not needed. But expect Leica to go for better image quality over convenience. Whether that implies BFR in some situations only beta testers know, and they are not telling.

Edited by jaapv
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Or- you could miss if was turned on accidentally- and you couldn't take a shot because the camera was counting down the last one...

 

either way it would be your fault.

 

I am disappointed that M only has 100 seconds. I have used the full 240 allowed on the M9 and would have used more time if I could have. Is there any technical reason they only allow 100 seconds?

 

And while they are at it- why not incorporate an intervalometer...

Edited by jaques
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Or- you could miss if was turned on accidentally- and you couldn't take a shot because the camera was counting down the last one...

 

either way it would be your fault.

 

I am disappointed that M only has 100 seconds. I have used the full 240 allowed on the M9 and would have used more time if I could have. Is there any technical reason they only allow 100 seconds?

 

And while they are at it- why not incorporate an intervalometer...

 

Actually, the M has only 60 not 100 secons. The quesion, if there is a severe hardware reason, or a firmware update could extend the range.

 

Thomas

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  • 9 months later...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

You have to be carful with what lens you are using to take your long exposure, with both my Noctilux and 21 lux there is light leaking onto the sensor through the lens mount.............more so with the Noctilux.........................not bad for a 7k camera:mad:

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Guest Gilgamesh

60 seconds max at ISO 200 in B setting is utter, utter pants.

 

Leica should have some courage in their product and be:

1) be more aware of what the client wants

2) be receptive to comments, suggestions & also criticisms.

 

I wonder: what do they know about exposures beyond 60 seconds that leads to a corporate decision to not venture beyond the proverbial porch of a pathetic 60 seconds?

 

Leica's motto, "Pigs will never fly with Leica Airways".

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