Monochrom Banding Normal?

[algrove]

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Just thinking out loud--That's a good point as now I recall some users mentioning that they had problems as soon as their batteries got down to 50%. Also others noted that perhaps they had mixed up old M8 batteries while using their M9's. And then as others have noted Leica has mentioned that batteries over 3 years old should be replaced.

 

Since Leica NJ requests that you do not send in the battery (nor SD card for that matter) with camera, they perhaps cannot replicate the entire scenario users are experiencing even if an SD card is sent in, but not battery too. Yes, it seems Leica's can be delicate AFA M9's are concerned.

Edited March 26, 2013 by algrove

[jffielde]

There may be something to the battery / power issues. Leica made reference to power fluctuations when I talked to the tech on the phone as a potential problem they were evaluating.

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[Malvolio]

At least in my case, I tried a half-dozen different SD cards recommended by Leica (including an 8GB Sandisk Extreme), and then provided them to Leica for their evaluation. They detected and acknowledged the problem immediately and replicated it on all cards, so the card selection has little relevance to my problem, other than with respect to frequency as noted in my post. As a side note, all cards work without incident in all other devices I own (all were purchased from B&H or Adorama), including 4 cameras, though Leica could be more delicate (and quite frankly, it is).

 

I agree with this observation as far as my M9 in concerned - I could replicate the issue on a number of cards. The irony is that the issue was LESS prevalent on cheaper cards such as the SD Ultra Class 4. It was the worst on an expensive Toshiba Card and a Panasonic Gold. I really don't think that the card is ultimately responsible for the banding and it is definitely a camera problem.

 

I'm happy to hear that Leica took up your issue seriously. My local authorised repairer seem to have determined that they can't do anything more since Leica were aware of the issue and were awaiting a solution from Leica themselves. I hope this is something that Leica is actually doing me not merely a deflection of my concern. Leica Australia is starting up shortly here and I will take up the issue with them.

[Malvolio]

There may be something to the battery / power issues. Leica made reference to power fluctuations when I talked to the tech on the phone as a potential problem they were evaluating.

 

Did Leica indicate that this was an issue they were aware of from other cameras as well? (Ie not just your own camera). Did they elaborate on the power issue with you?

[k-hawinkler]

The battery / power issues have been extensively discussed on this forum, both in the international and particularly in the German part. The last firmware update actually seems to have helped but not entirely fixed all these issues. Also note, it's an intermittent problem for some cameras and therefore more difficult to address than a clean hard failure.

[raumplan]

Normally Leica is pretty quick in responding emails through their owners login page, but when I wrote to them to express my concerns on the banding, the frequent frozen shutter at single shot discreet mode, they never responded back.

 

Hopefully a new firmware can fix these issues but no one knows when that will come.....even teh M240 firmware is out but not the MM.

[Malvolio]

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Normally Leica is pretty quick in responding emails through their owners login page, but when I wrote to them to express my concerns on the banding, the frequent frozen shutter at single shot discreet mode, they never responded back.

 

Hopefully a new firmware can fix these issues but no one knows when that will come.....even teh M240 firmware is out but not the MM.

 

I also sent an email with sample images to Leica with no response.

 

Hopefully Leica aren't sticking their heads in the sand about the issue. That would be unfortunate.

[Malvolio]

The battery / power issues have been extensively discussed on this forum, both in the international and particularly in the German part. The last firmware update actually seems to have helped but not entirely fixed all these issues. Also note, it's an intermittent problem for some cameras and therefore more difficult to address than a clean hard failure.

 

KH,

 

If it were happening to your camera what would be your expectation as to how to resolve the issue ?

[k-hawinkler]

KH,

 

If it were happening to your camera what would be your expectation as to how to resolve the issue ?

 

 

Hi Adrian,

 

Good question. I would try what seemed to have worked for others.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2356176-post29.html

I also would get in touch with Leica but they may not be able to fix the issue at this time.

These patterns seem to show up predominantly in high ISO underexposed shadows.

So, one would have to pay particular attention to those areas and try to get them as good as possible.

 

My M9 had intermittent problems with image corruption and lock up.

Same problem several other forum members had.

Jamie Roberts figured out first that this particular problem could be avoided by using Panasonic Gold cards that have power failure protection features.

Using those cards solved my problems as well.

 

In the banding case the issues seem more subtle and not as catastrophic.

But of course the banding is equally annoying as it ruins otherwise good pictures.

 

It's obvious to me the banding fault is with the camera and needs to get resolved by Leica.

Let's hope Leica will be able to eventually get to the bottom of this issue and provide a fix.

[raumplan]

I tried using a slow card today (sandisk ultra class 10, 30MB/s, 32 GB card). I took 6 shots in a row, first 3 shots were clean, then the following 3 shots have banding in the shadow areas. I am suspecting it really has to do with the camera writing the card while I am shooting using the buffer at the same time.....

[jffielde]

My problem occurs with the slowest cards made at base ISO in continuous mode (nearly every image banded in shots 3-7).

[k-hawinkler]

I tried using a slow card today (sandisk ultra class 10, 30MB/s, 32 GB card). I took 6 shots in a row, first 3 shots were clean, then the following 3 shots have banding in the shadow areas. I am suspecting it really has to do with the camera writing the card while I am shooting using the buffer at the same time.....

 

 

So, what happens if you shoot one shot at a time and wait unril the data has been written to the card before you take another shot? Does that reduce banding?

[k-hawinkler]

My problem occurs with the slowest cards made at base ISO in continuous mode (nearly every image banded in shots 3-7).

 

 

In order to get some use out of an apparently defective camera I would avoid those usage patterns that lead to problems.

Let's call it a work around.

Also, is Leica willing to replace your unit?

[jffielde]

Yes, continuous mode matters nearly nothing to me anyway - the mode just highlights the defect to make it easy for Leica to identify.

 

I'm supposed to hear something today. We'll see.

[k-hawinkler]

Yes, continuous mode matters nearly nothing to me anyway - the mode just highlights the defect to make it easy for Leica to identify.

 

I'm supposed to hear something today. We'll see.

 

 

Thanks.

Leica either should repair your camera for good or exchange it for a properly functioning one.

BTW, it's excellent and helps everbody including Leica that you found a way to demonstrate the banding problem on demand.

That's typically the hardest part to make an intermittent problem show up on demand! Congratulations. Thanks for that.

And hopefully Leica has some good news for you.

Good luck.

[photomac]

My problem occurs with the slowest cards made at base ISO in continuous mode (nearly every image banded in shots 3-7).

 

Leica sells an expensive camera that allows

- continuous shooting

- shooting while data are written to the card

- reviewing photos on the LCD screen / zooming / scrolling / change ISO while the red light is blinking.

So I expect it to work.

 

I'm a photojournalist and I'm almost never in situations where I can wait for the

data to be written to the card before I can make the next shot. And I'm almost never

in situations that are repeatable.

 

Some days ago I did a coverage of a tattoo artist and lost 80% of the shots because

of banding. To preserve highlights I had to underexpose 2 stops. Camera was set

to ISO 320.

 

So I did some testing:

 

5 shots, ISO 320, 3 stops underexposed, in c-mode without SD Card. Then inserted

an SD Card to save the files. -> No banding when pushed 3 stops in LR.

 

Then: Camera set to ISO 320, 3 stops underexposed, 3 shots in c-mode, then a

pause of 2 seconds, 4 continuous shots and chimping, scrolling and zooming

while the data were written.

 

Cards used:

- SanDisk SDHC standard (blue), Class 4, 8 GB

- SanDisk SDHC Extreme, Class 10, 30MB/s, 16 GB

- Panasonic SDHC Silver, Class 10, read 20MB/s / write 10MB/s, 8 GB

- Panasonic SDHC Gold, Class 10, read 90MB/s / write 45MB/s, 16 GB

- Panasonic SDHC Gold Pro, Class 10, read 95MB/s / write 80MB/s, 16 GB

 

The Panasonic Silver was the only SD Card where the stored files were without

banding. All other cards showed banding after the first shot in a row, the

Pana Gold Pro being the worst.

 

Then I run the same test, but set the ISO to 400, 640, 1250 and 2500,

and underexposed by 1, 2 and 3 stops. -> NO banding with whatever SD Card used!

 

So it seems, only base ISO 320 is affected.

[GaryMulcahey]

Leica sells an expensive camera that allows

- continuous shooting

- shooting while data are written to the card

- reviewing photos on the LCD screen / zooming / scrolling / change ISO while the red light is blinking.

So I expect it to work.

 

I'm a photojournalist and I'm almost never in situations where I can wait for the

data to be written to the card before I can make the next shot. And I'm almost never

in situations that are repeatable.

 

Some days ago I did a coverage of a tattoo artist and lost 80% of the shots because

of banding. To preserve highlights I had to underexpose 2 stops. Camera was set

to ISO 320.

 

So I did some testing:

 

5 shots, ISO 320, 3 stops underexposed, in c-mode without SD Card. Then inserted

an SD Card to save the files. -> No banding when pushed 3 stops in LR.

 

Then: Camera set to ISO 320, 3 stops underexposed, 3 shots in c-mode, then a

pause of 2 seconds, 4 continuous shots and chimping, scrolling and zooming

while the data were written.

 

Cards used:

- SanDisk SDHC standard (blue), Class 4, 8 GB

- SanDisk SDHC Extreme, Class 10, 30MB/s, 16 GB

- Panasonic SDHC Silver, Class 10, read 20MB/s / write 10MB/s, 8 GB

- Panasonic SDHC Gold, Class 10, read 90MB/s / write 45MB/s, 16 GB

- Panasonic SDHC Gold Pro, Class 10, read 95MB/s / write 80MB/s, 16 GB

 

The Panasonic Silver was the only SD Card where the stored files were without

banding. All other cards showed banding after the first shot in a row, the

Pana Gold Pro being the worst.

 

Then I run the same test, but set the ISO to 400, 640, 1250 and 2500,

and underexposed by 1, 2 and 3 stops. -> NO banding with whatever SD Card used!

 

So it seems, only base ISO 320 is affected.

 

 

This is a little disheartening. I would like to purchase a Mono but for the price Leica is asking for it, these banding issues are unacceptable.

I'm curious to know if every Mono does this or is it a batch of them? Like from this serial number to that one have the issues? Does this banding happen right out of the box or does is rear its head after some time has passed?

I was looking forward to getting one of these.

 

G

[raumplan]

So, what happens if you shoot one shot at a time and wait unril the data has been written to the card before you take another shot? Does that reduce banding?

 

 

I am trying this now.

[raumplan]

Hopefully the more of us report this to Leica the quicker they will act to resolve the issue...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[raumplan]

So, what happens if you shoot one shot at a time and wait unril the data has been written to the card before you take another shot? Does that reduce banding?

 

did a test using the sandisk 16GB extreme pro (45MB/s) card.

 

Took 4 shots, each waiting for the red lamp to stop before taking another shot. The banding is gone. However, this is still a silly work around as I have to wait for a few seconds before taking another shot and this may not be practical in real life situation.