Stealth3kpl Posted January 13, 2013 Share #101 Posted January 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I don't know why people let themselves get so het up about 1) a camera 2) an unfinished camera Pete 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 13, 2013 Posted January 13, 2013 Hi Stealth3kpl, Take a look here New M240 photos. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Bazwell Posted January 13, 2013 Author Share #102 Posted January 13, 2013 I wasn’t intending/expecting to set off such a storm of negativity when I began this thread! I’ve been looking at the images again and it seems that some of the problems that posters have noted with the M240 images—especially the poor and inconsistent color balance—are also present in the S2 images. On my monitor, the reds from both cameras look really strange. Since we know the S2 is a phenomenal camera, this would suggest that the Dr’s post-processing or white balance settings are responsible for at least some of the perceived problems. Here’s hoping that we get some more interpretable files from the M very soon. These latest ones seem to have only raised questions rather than provided any answers. In the meantime I’m going to go out and shoot more with my M8. Sometimes in the excitement about upgrading, I forget how much I enjoy what I already have. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted January 13, 2013 Share #103 Posted January 13, 2013 I don't know why people let themselves get so het up about ...because it is an internet forum, and getting all worked up about it is what those are all about in general. Secondly, because most of us are highly invested in Leica gear and are eagerly awaiting the one camera to continue this line, so it makes us a little edgy. Have you ever heard people talking about their national soccer team a few months before the World Cup? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted January 13, 2013 Share #104 Posted January 13, 2013 I don't know why people let themselves get so het up about 1) a camera 2) an unfinished camera Pete Really? I find your inability to understand why Leica enthusiasts are exercised about the next important Leica camera equally hard to understand. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janki Posted January 13, 2013 Share #105 Posted January 13, 2013 Official Leica M sample images to be released soon | Leica News & Rumors ;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadeyev Posted January 13, 2013 Share #106 Posted January 13, 2013 Quite apart from the photographs he appears to be well qualified to pick up electronic glitches. Not a bad idea at all. I heartily agree! You would be hard pressed to find anyone with more experience in electronics than the man of Rohde Schwarz fame; I would not be surprised to find some of the company's testing equipment at Leica for that matter. Let him have his fun; the real pictures will be coming soon enough (we all hope) ! Ciao, Theo 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted January 13, 2013 Share #107 Posted January 13, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) >Note that the photos with the ID tags beginning with "L" are the one he identifies as M240 photos. The >ones beginning with ULR are apparently shot with the S2. Hmmm. The first image labeled 'ULRS2' shows a chap shooting with an S2. Did this merry bunch of pirates have two S2 bodies along or was it taken with the M240 and is mislabeled? If the files marked 'L' really are from the 240, then they do give a few clues to the IQ of the sensor. There are several frames where the contrast ratio of the scene is quite high. Backlit 'sailors' against a bright sky. In several cases detail is retained in the sky while there is deep penetration in to the shadows. The highlights on the water aren't just blobs, the white sails and hulls show plenty of detail, while the shadows aren't crushed. To me this indicates that the sensor is capable of capturing quite a large exposure range. Reminds me of what I am getting from my D600, which captures around 14 EV. This is encouraging, especially when you consider that he probably exposed these in AE mode or at the very least with the built in meter. As we all know that is not the best route to optimal exposure and it requires the sensor to have some 'slack' to compensate for the exposure being off by a stop or more for optimum results. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 13, 2013 Share #108 Posted January 13, 2013 To me this indicates that the sensor is capable of capturing quite a large exposure range. That's my impression too (a first impression anyway). Those scenes have a very high contrast range — a challenge for digital cameras — and the sensor seems to be handling them very well. In that sense, these photos may be a very positive indicator. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 15, 2013 Share #109 Posted January 15, 2013 Seems like Leica might have allowed this guy to have the M as a beta tester, if I were Leica I would be interested in sea water damp conditions and an electronics guy that might pick up a glitch and not care at all that he is very average as a photographer. Leica can and do get hold of some fabulous photographers to show the M off at its best. I am guessing this guy was simply too arrogant not to follow instruction and agreements. His pictures tell me nothing at all, other than perhaps AWB may need some refinement. I am looking forward to real comparisons and a write up by Erwin to see how many stops I might be missing with my M9 (something I am happy with) and perhaps what CMOS has traded for higher ISO and greater dynamic range. I wish they would hurry up, get them on the shelves and I can start a thread about the redundancy of the MM and live happily ever after with my M9-P and newly acquired nearly new MM Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 15, 2013 Share #110 Posted January 15, 2013 Seems like Leica might have allowed this guy to have the M as a beta tester, if I were Leica I would be interested in sea water damp conditions and an electronics guy that might pick up a glitch and not care at all that he is very average as a photographer. Ah yes, graduating to sea water damp conditions after surviving the war-zone that is his local Costco. The thought that he is bringing any substantial skill in evaluating the camera to the party is laughable. By his own admission elsewhere, he doesn't know much about cameras and I expect the camera is left on auto-ISO, auto-exposure, auto-white balance. It would be on auto-focus too if only he could find the menu setting. Maybe it's just a cosy arrangement between ex-pat German/Austrian chums which has put the camera in his inexpert hands. I agree, Leica should just get on with it. M camera sales are by all accounts stalled, their own cash flow - not to mention that of their dealers - will be harmed by their continuing inability to get product to market and they need to get the M240 out in the timeframe they announced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 15, 2013 Share #111 Posted January 15, 2013 However, Leica should finish the M240. I don't want to pay thousands of $$$s just to be a beta tester. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted January 15, 2013 Share #112 Posted January 15, 2013 Oh great. More personal attacks. However unsubstantiated, let rip eh? You think attacks are justified by your school boy impatience with getting a new toy? So apparently smart in technological knowledge, yet so social incompetent and unaware. Amazing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 15, 2013 Share #113 Posted January 15, 2013 Sounds like Mr Rohde has no less experience than some of us in matter of photography: "I would describe the M 240 as a huge boost in capabilities the M 9 has. After several month of using it, I am very happy with it. (…) I have all the high end cameras and the winners are M240, Sony 35/2, D 600 and Canon 1Dx. The exposure meters have tolerances and if the contrast of the picture is too high noise at 6400 ISO is slightly visible in some corners. The M 240 has 6 dB better dynamic range (…)". (Re: best time to get M9?: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2013 Share #114 Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Ah yes, graduating to sea water damp conditions after surviving the war-zone that is his local Costco. The thought that he is bringing any substantial skill in evaluating the camera to the party is laughable. By his own admission elsewhere, he doesn't know much about cameras and I expect the camera is left on auto-ISO, auto-exposure, auto-white balance. It would be on auto-focus too if only he could find the menu setting. Maybe it's just a cosy arrangement between ex-pat German/Austrian chums which has put the camera in his inexpert hands. . Nonsense - this is exactly the way a percentage of these cameras will be used. Of course that must be beta-tested as well. Or should it only be sold to know-it-all experts who would not deign to use Auto-Iso or Auto-WB? Edited January 15, 2013 by jaapv 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 15, 2013 Share #115 Posted January 15, 2013 Oh I certainly agree Dr Rohde is an expert in his field, dig around and there are interesting papers on microwave amplifier design, noise analysis, building a technology business and, who knows, he might have been involved in a consulting role in the development of the M240 or its sensor. However, I do not understand what purpose is served by Leica agreeing for these images to be published. I found, for example, the images made available by Jono Slack from the MM - and the way he did it - much more informative. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted January 15, 2013 Share #116 Posted January 15, 2013 Whatever expertise Dr Rohde can or does bring to the development of the M240, it is not apparent to we, the audience, what that is. I don't care what reasons provoked the making of his pictures, they should not have been released as they were. It is simply a marketing disaster, proven by the nature of discussion in this thread. If he had a brief, I hope he fulfilled it, but whatever, we don't know it's purpose and consequently its secondary achievement is a PR disaster, it would appear. May the real product and it ability surface soon to quell the garbage that currently abounds. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2013 Share #117 Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) As long as his expertise is apparent to Leica. They have a clear profile as a basis for their choice of betatesters. I'm sure that if (when) there is a third "leak" the images will be vastly better again. Maybe even final PR shots and DNGs. Edited January 15, 2013 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted January 15, 2013 Share #118 Posted January 15, 2013 Seems like Leica might have allowed this guy to have the M as a beta tester, if I were Leica I would be interested in sea water damp conditions and an electronics guy that might pick up a glitch and not care at all that he is very average as a photographer. Leica can and do get hold of some fabulous photographers to show the M off at its best. I am guessing this guy was simply too arrogant not to follow instruction and agreements. His pictures tell me nothing at all, other than perhaps AWB may need some refinement. I am looking forward to real comparisons and a write up by Erwin to see how many stops I might be missing with my M9 (something I am happy with) and perhaps what CMOS has traded for higher ISO and greater dynamic range. I wish they would hurry up, get them on the shelves and I can start a thread about the redundancy of the MM and live happily ever after with my M9-P and newly acquired nearly new MM They are interested in sea water damp conditions, shock, dirt, electromagnetic and heat, etc. Trust me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 15, 2013 Share #119 Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Sounds like Mr Rohde has no less experience than some of us in matter of photography:"I would describe the M 240 as a huge boost in capabilities the M 9 has. After several month of using it, I am very happy with it. (…) I have all the high end cameras and the winners are M240, Sony 35/2, D 600 and Canon 1Dx. The exposure meters have tolerances and if the contrast of the picture is too high noise at 6400 ISO is slightly visible in some corners. The M 240 has 6 dB better dynamic range (…)". (Re: best time to get M9?: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review) Reading this quote I remian personally perplexed by Dr Ulrich, I can forgive his eloqunce and english, far better than my German. He is clearly technically competent but does not seem to provide any balance with his comments to support. In my view, any competent engineer/scientist will comment according to their own knowledge and skills. I am curious : How and why did he have the M for two months With lots of camera's, intellect and an apparent interest why do some statements chellenge his competence I am moving towards sympathy for marknorton's challenge ! (I also suspect he might have hit the nail on the head with some involvement in the engineering by a company supportung Leica ?) Anyway his pictures don't float my boat Edited January 15, 2013 by IWC Doppel Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 15, 2013 Share #120 Posted January 15, 2013 Official images will come soon or late i guess but without disrespect towards PRs or anyone else, i won't make my mind up until i can open a raw file in my favorite developers. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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