Question about Flash compatibility on R8

[grandetech]

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Hi Everyone,

 

I recently bought my first Leica camera, R8, s/n 24xxxxx. As I am new to it, I wonder if my Canon 580EX II flash are able to use with R8 without damaging the electronic on either side. If not, any other recommended flash for it?

 

Thanks.

Richard, Hong Kong

[dave_d]

I use a Metz 54 MZ-4i flash and am happy with it. What I like about the Metz is that I can replace the shoe on it to use with my Nikon camera as well. Personally I wouldn't take a chance using a Canon flash on my Leica.

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[robsteve]

Richard:

 

You will need either a Metz flash or a flash that has an auto setting that uses a sensor in the flash to control the exposure. The Canon do not have the traditional auto settings. I think some of the Nikon flashes still had a traditional auto.

 

On older flashes, you need to make sure they have a low voltage sync circuit. I cannot remember the specs for low voltage sync, but I believe it is under 10v. The older high voltage sync flashes have sync voltages much higher, maybe 80-100v. You can use a volt meter between the center pin and the side contact on the flash foot to measure the voltage.

Edited December 17, 2012 by robsteve

[H.Beatzel]

Hi Richard,

 

I have the METZ 54 MZ-4i digital flash for my R8. You need a Metz adapter for the R8, as the flash and the camera comunicate. The pictures I took with this Flash are just great. I strongly recommend this flash.

 

regards,

H. Beatzel

[brt]

The 580EX II or any other current Canon flash is compatible with any camera with a hot shoe. The 580EX II has an additional PC socket and you can use it with any camera which has a PC socket. In both cases you will be limited to manual flash. Your R8 has a mode F in addition to M, A, T, P. Use your R8 in mode F as a selective flash meter.

You can even set up your 580EX II in master mode and fire some external 430EX, 550EX or 580EX slaves in two groups with different settings. You can even change the energy level of your slave units from the master unit. This cannot be done with Metz flashes. Have a look at Strobist for more info about manual flash. If you need TTL flash you will be limited to SCA3000 compatible flashes.

Edited December 17, 2012 by brt

[Torquinian]

Hi Everyone,

 

I recently bought my first Leica camera, R8, s/n 24xxxxx. As I am new to it, I wonder if my Canon 580EX II flash are able to use with R8 without damaging the electronic on either side. If not, any other recommended flash for it?

 

Thanks.

Richard, Hong Kong

 

I have a Leica SF 24 D flashgun that works well with my R8 set to TTL.

[grandetech]

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The 580EX II or any other current Canon flash is compatible with any camera with a hot shoe. The 580EX II has an additional PC socket and you can use it with any camera which has a PC socket. In both cases you will be limited to manual flash. Your R8 has a mode F in addition to M, A, T, P. Use your R8 in mode F as a selective flash meter.

You can even set up your 580EX II in master mode and fire some external 430EX, 550EX or 580EX slaves in two groups with different settings. You can even change the energy level of your slave units from the master unit. This cannot be done with Metz flashes. Have a look at Strobist for more info about manual flash. If you need TTL flash you will be limited to SCA3000 compatible flashes.

 

Thanks all for your reply. Buying another flash like Metz or Leica 24 is last thing I want to do with a film camera which I don't shoot much indoor, or fill flash outdoor. Thus, I want to use my existing Canon 580EX II, but you mention it will be a manual flash, my skill or knowledge only allow me to use TTL flash. Guess it will have to be Metz or Leica then, in terms of performance, which is more worthed to go for? (for general indoor use)

[dave_d]

I use a Metz 54 MZ-4i flash and am happy with it. What I like about the Metz is that I can replace the shoe on it to use with my Nikon camera as well. Personally I wouldn't take a chance using a Canon flash on my Leica.

 

Before buying my Metz flash I used a Vivitar 285 with my R9. The Vivitar worked well and they can be found used very inexpensively. Compared to the Metz, the Metz communincates with the camera and is more efficient with batteries but the Vivitar is very capable. For the price a Vivitar is a great flash to have in your bag.

[masjah]

Thanks all for your reply. Buying another flash like Metz or Leica 24 is last thing I want to do with a film camera which I don't shoot much indoor, or fill flash outdoor. Thus, I want to use my existing Canon 580EX II, but you mention it will be a manual flash, my skill or knowledge only allow me to use TTL flash. Guess it will have to be Metz or Leica then, in terms of performance, which is more worthed to go for? (for general indoor use)

 

If you just want a very basic and compact flash, of not huge power, with no tilt/swivel (or focal length zoom with ROM lenses) the older Leica SF20 is quite commonly available s/h for a very reasonable price. (It's output is usbstantially the same as the later SF24D; they're just classified in slightly different ways.) It doesn't have the facility for digital camera pre-flash that the later SF24D supports, but you don't need this for the R8. In any case it works well in "A" mode for these cameras. For something more sophisticated and powerful the Metz 54 is really excellent (again the earlier MZ3 is fine for the R8). You need to make sure you've got the appropriate SCA adapter, 3501 or 3502 for the R8.

[grandetech]

If you just want a very basic and compact flash, of not huge power, with no tilt/swivel (or focal length zoom with ROM lenses) the older Leica SF20 is quite commonly available s/h for a very reasonable price. (It's output is usbstantially the same as the later SF24D; they're just classified in slightly different ways.) It doesn't have the facility for digital camera pre-flash that the later SF24D supports, but you don't need this for the R8. In any case it works well in "A" mode for these cameras. For something more sophisticated and powerful the Metz 54 is really excellent (again the earlier MZ3 is fine for the R8). You need to make sure you've got the appropriate SCA adapter, 3501 or 3502 for the R8.

 

 

I noticed that Metz 54 is no longer exist on their official website, probably discontinued? Is it I can only find it used together with a SCA 3501 or 3502 adapter on ebay?

 

I saw a Metz 54 M4 on ebay, but not M4i, is that ok?

[masjah]

I noticed that Metz 54 is no longer exist on their official website, probably discontinued? Is it I can only find it used together with a SCA 3501 or 3502 adapter on ebay?

 

I saw a Metz 54 M4 on ebay, but not M4i, is that ok?

 

Sorry, the "i" suffix may be one of my senior moments! The MZ4 would be fine, as would MZ3. It's probably been superseded by the 58 (on which the current big Leica flash is based?). The SCA adapters were sold separately, but you might get the correcct one combined with the flash on ebay (or indeed the two separately). Red Dot Cameras and ffordes sell the SCA 3502 separately new, but its new price is £58 at ffordes and £76 at Red Dot. (You could probably get a s/h SF20 for that!)

[grandetech]

Sorry, the "i" suffix may be one of my senior moments! The MZ4 would be fine, as would MZ3. It's probably been superseded by the 58 (on which the current big Leica flash is based?). The SCA adapters were sold separately, but you might get the correcct one combined with the flash on ebay (or indeed the two separately). Red Dot Cameras and ffordes sell the SCA 3502 separately new, but its new price is £58 at ffordes and £76 at Red Dot. (You could probably get a s/h SF20 for that!)

 

Thanks! Actually the Leica SF24 looks better to me, its more slim and nice looking, is the output flash power quite the same as Metz 54 M4? I saw an used SF24 at Eur180 in a local shop, is that a good deal, I have no idea what street price when it was selling brand new. If I buy a new Metz, which model will that be for R8 and hopefully needless to buy an adapter? I prefer not buying adapter as it stacks up the costs quite a bit.

[masjah]

Thanks! Actually the Leica SF24 looks better to me, its more slim and nice looking, is the output flash power quite the same as Metz 54 M4? I saw an used SF24 at Eur180 in a local shop, is that a good deal, I have no idea what street price when it was selling brand new. If I buy a new Metz, which model will that be for R8 and hopefully needless to buy an adapter? I prefer not buying adapter as it stacks up the costs quite a bit.

 

The Metz 54 is much more powerful than the Leica SF24 (the numbers indicate the relative power in terms of guide numbers, so the 54 will illuminate to a maximum distance a bit over twice that of the 24, all other things being equal). It's a completely different animal altogether, much bigger, heavier and more sophisticated. The SF20 or the SF24 will match directly with your R8 without any further adapter. Other Metz flashes will all also additionally need the correct adapter to work properly on the R8. Can I reaffirm that for use on the R8, the SF20 will be virtually as good as the SF24. I would have thought that €180 was quite a lot to pay for a used SF24. I would have thought that €140-150 would be nearer the mark. (You should be able to find a used SF20 though for about €100.)

[H.Beatzel]

Sorry, the "i" suffix may be one of my senior moments! The MZ4 would be fine, as would MZ3. It's probably been superseded by the 58 (on which the current big Leica flash is based?). The SCA adapters were sold separately, but you might get the correcct one combined with the flash on ebay (or indeed the two separately). Red Dot Cameras and ffordes sell the SCA 3502 separately new, but its new price is £58 at ffordes and £76 at Red Dot. (You could probably get a s/h SF20 for that!)

When I was looking for a flash for my R8, (6 years ago) I was looking for a easy of use flash and at the same time for a very powerful flash. I was able to test the flash from my Leica dealer in Germany and the Metz 54 4i completely convinced me. So bought the Metz 54 4i flash, as I use it very much it has never let me down in the last 6 years.

The SF24 is without doubt a good flash, but is does not nearly have the power of the 54 4i. so to compare the two flashes is neither fair for the SF24 nor for the 54 4i flash.

I have to admit that the initial price tag of the flash plus the price for the R8 adapter is not in the lower range, but it is worth every penny.

 

If I would have to replace my current flash, I would without hesitation go for the Metz 58 AF2.

 

Kind regards

Helmut Beatzel

[grandetech]

When I was looking for a flash for my R8, (6 years ago) I was looking for a easy of use flash and at the same time for a very powerful flash. I was able to test the flash from my Leica dealer in Germany and the Metz 54 4i completely convinced me. So bought the Metz 54 4i flash, as I use it very much it has never let me down in the last 6 years.

The SF24 is without doubt a good flash, but is does not nearly have the power of the 54 4i. so to compare the two flashes is neither fair for the SF24 nor for the 54 4i flash.

I have to admit that the initial price tag of the flash plus the price for the R8 adapter is not in the lower range, but it is worth every penny.

 

If I would have to replace my current flash, I would without hesitation go for the Metz 58 AF2.

 

Kind regards

Helmut Beatzel

 

I suppose 54 4i no longer available new, if I go for 58 AF2, which adapter do I need, is it the same one as 54 4i?

[masjah]

I suppose 54 4i no longer available new, if I go for 58 AF2, which adapter do I need, is it the same one as 54 4i?

 

I honestly don't know if the 58 is suitable. It looks from the Metz catalogue as if the 58 itself comes in different variants for different manufacturers, rather than one basic unit with different adapters. I suspect that there may not be a suitable Metz 58 for Leica, because Metz probably manufacture the Leica SF58 for them, and wouldn't cut into their market. Of course, the Leica SF58 is relatively expensive to buy new.

 

What I would suggest is to look for a second-hand Mets 54 with 3502 adapter if you want a powerful gun, or a second-hand SF20 if you want a smaller one.

 

PS The 54 MZ4i still seems to be listed on the Metz website metzflash.co.uk

Edited December 25, 2012 by masjah

[naturephoto1]

I honestly don't know if the 58 is suitable. It looks from the Metz catalogue as if the 58 itself comes in different variants for different manufacturers, rather than one basic unit with different adapters. I suspect that there may not be a suitable Metz 58 for Leica, because Metz probably manufacture the Leica SF58 for them, and wouldn't cut into their market. Of course, the Leica SF58 is relatively expensive to buy new.

 

What I would suggest is to look for a second-hand Mets 54 with 3502 adapter if you want a powerful gun, or a second-hand SF20 if you want a smaller one.

 

PS The 54 MZ4i still seems to be listed on the Metz website metzflash.co.uk

 

You can't change the shoes on the Metz 58AF2 (or I believe the original AF1) flashes. They are designed for digital cameras but I believe they should work for the R8 on manual or the old A settings or Partial Power ratioing.

 

Rich

[H.Beatzel]

I suppose 54 4i no longer available new, if I go for 58 AF2, which adapter do I need, is it the same one as 54 4i?

Hi,

Please find attached a link to the Metz 58 AF-2 flash

(http://www.metz.de/index.php?eID=tx_nawsecuredl&u=0&file=fileadmin/fm-dam/Download/Photo_Electronic/Bedienungsanleitung/mecablitz/mecablitz_48_bis_76/mecablitz_58_AF_2_digital_Olympus_D_F_NL_GB_I_E.pdf&t=1356619035&hash=4e3cd6fa991ec69e6101278636d286ce0084729c)

 

There is a Flash which fits the following cameras : Olympus/Panasonic/Leica, so their is no special adapter necessary. But to be 100 % sure please send an enquiry to Metz stating the camera type and the flash type.

 

I hope I could help you.

 

regards

Helmut Beatzel

[masjah]

Hi,

Please find attached a link to the Metz 58 AF-2 flash

(http://www.metz.de/index.php?eID=tx_nawsecuredl&u=0&file=fileadmin/fm-dam/Download/Photo_Electronic/Bedienungsanleitung/mecablitz/mecablitz_48_bis_76/mecablitz_58_AF_2_digital_Olympus_D_F_NL_GB_I_E.pdf&t=1356619035&hash=4e3cd6fa991ec69e6101278636d286ce0084729c)

 

There is a Flash which fits the following cameras : Olympus/Panasonic/Leica, so their is no special adapter necessary. But to be 100 % sure please send an enquiry to Metz stating the camera type and the flash type.

 

I hope I could help you.

 

regards

Helmut Beatzel

 

Helmut

 

What bothers me is that the front page of this manual talks of Olympus/Panasonic/Leica with 4/3rds digital standard. If you look at the latest compatibility chart, it doesn't mention the R8/R9 at all, but the M cameras do not appear to be supported by the 58 (greyed out on the chart; only some of the Leica/Panasonic clones are highlighted). My worry is that this variant of the 58 might be effectively compatible with Olympus SCA 3202 standard and not Leica 3502. I really think Metz ought to be contacted to make sure. That is why I suggested that a 54 with 3502 might be a safer bet.

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[naturephoto1]

Helmut

 

What bothers me is that the front page of this manual talks of Olympus/Panasonic/Leica with 4/3rds digital standard. If you look at the latest compatibility chart, it doesn't mention the R8/R9 at all, but the M cameras do not appear to be supported by the 58 (greyed out on the chart; only some of the Leica/Panasonic clones are highlighted). My worry is that this variant of the 58 might be effectively compatible with Olympus SCA 3202 standard and not Leica 3502. I really think Metz ought to be contacted to make sure. That is why I suggested that a 54 with 3502 might be a safer bet.

 

As I suggested above, my suspicion is that the Olympus/Panasonic version of the Metz 58AF2 will work with the R8, R9 and even the M8, M8.2, M9 and even the new M. I believe that in this case it is just a matter of the flash contacts. However, with all of these Leica cameras you will only be able to work with the flash on M, Partial output and Auto. There will be no TTL offered through the usage of the flash due to not having the proper foot and software which is only available for the Leica version of this flash.

 

It may also be worth contacting Leica itself about this. It is unfortunate that though Metz is making the Leica version of the flash units, they can only be purchased from Leica or a Leica Dealer. Manfrotto, the US distributor for the Metz flashes only has limited knowledge about the Leica versions of the same flash units.

 

In fact, if memory serves me I believe that Justin Stailey of Leica USA agreed with me at Photo Plus that the Olympus/Panasonic Metz 58AF2 would work on the new M but only as I have suggested above. It is certainly worth contacting Leica about this.

 

Rich

Edited December 26, 2012 by naturephoto1