SF-58 Flash - worth the money???

[NikonJeff]

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I'm shooting the M9 and have a SF-24D but hate the fact that I can't direct the light on the hotshoe. Is the SF-58 really worth the money or should I just suck it up, hand hold the flash on a cord or mount it to a bracket???

 

I'm REALLY tryiong to transition the M9 into more wedding work which at some point during each wedding WILL require some flash work...

 

Thanks!

Jeff

[hsw]

Love mine and use it both off and on camera. I'm not a wedding Photog but I would think that the inability to bounce and rotate would be big limitations. The 58 should meet your needs and then some. ['worth-the-money' and 'Leica' don't always fit well in the same box ]

 

Henry

Edited December 13, 2012 by hsw

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[jaapv]

Well, given that its Metz branded twin is cheaper it is obviously not really worth its money. On the other hand it is the only game in town when you want to use a serious flash on the M with full M-TTL control. I can imagine that as a pro you are more interested in the elimination of potential mistakes than in a few hundred dollars worth of investment so it should be preferable over a standard flash on automatic. In that sense it is worth its money.

Users tell me it is an excellent piece of gear.

[viramati]

If you want full ttl you have no choice. I find it to be a very good and versatile unit though you sometimes need to be careful with exposure as the M9 centre weighted metering system can get fooled. It does unbalance the M9 somewhat but I have got used to it and the extra power you get is very useful. I had the sf 24 and tried using it with a cable but found it just didn't give me enough power and jsu slowed me down. Another and almost the most important factor is the lack of shutter lag in TTL mode compared to the SF24 which has a pretty long gap between the pre-flash and main flash which becomes almost imperceptible with the SF58 making it a lot easier to 'capture the moment'

 

Will be interesting to see how it works with matrix metering on the new M.

Edited December 13, 2012 by viramati

[erlingmm]

It works great, but it is expensive and and a bit big. It can also be used off camera with a Nikon cable. I actually have 2, and sometimes use the other in slave mode to get more diffused/background lighting. It is useful if you walk around in a room to have a second flash to light up background/ceiling, also makes the on-camera flash less aggressive.

[NikonJeff]

Excellent responses and very much appreciated. I suppose the wording for my question was less than ideal. I was primarily wondering if it was worth the expense as compared to my SF-24D.

 

As a business expense it is an immediate write off but if the performance was only marginally better compared to the 24 then I would simply keep using what I have.

 

Coming from 15+ years of shooting Nikon strobes I'm very spoiled by their ease of use, consistency and the capability of the flash system.

 

Time to crack open the wallet again

 

*************

Since the thing is so big, are you guys that are using it employ the Leica or RRS grip to help you control the added weight and balance issues that accompany mounting it on the M9?

 

*************

[hsw]

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*************

Since the thing is so big, are you guys that are using it employ the Leica or RRS grip to help you control the added weight and balance issues that accompany mounting it on the M9?

 

*************

 

Handgrip, wrist strap, and Thumbie

[NikonJeff]

Well, given that its Metz branded twin is cheaper it is obviously not really worth its money. On the other hand it is the only game in town when you want to use a serious flash on the M with full M-TTL control. I can imagine that as a pro you are more interested in the elimination of potential mistakes than in a few hundred dollars worth of investment so it should be preferable over a standard flash on automatic. In that sense it is worth its money.

Users tell me it is an excellent piece of gear.

 

Does the Metz branded flash actually function properly with the M9 in TTL? I'm assuming the flash is the Metz 58 AF-2 TTL??? That is a LOT more reasonable $345 vs $644 new...

 

As long as it functions the same and simply doesn't have the Leica logo on it, I'm good with that... Used Leica SF-58 flashes have been selling for more than a new Metz!

[jaapv]

No it does not function completely - it does fire but M-TTL does not work or the auxiliary flash or something like that, I do not recall exactly. There was an article in LFI on the subject, at a guess about 4 years ago.

[Luke_Miller]

Since the thing is so big, are you guys that are using it employ the Leica or RRS grip to help you control the added weight and balance issues that accompany mounting it on the M9?

 

I've given those options serious consideration, but just hate the notion of making my M9 significantly larger than it is. I even tried it with my RRS Portrait Perfect flash bracket. What works for me is my Artisan & Artist half case. I slip the body into my case and it gives me just enough extra grip that I can manage the flash. Probably any half case would work as well.

 

I've found my M8.2 and now M9 surprisingly competent with the SF-58. Set up for slow sync I get bounced flash shots that are nicely balanced with the ambient light. I do turn off the secondary flash though. It can't be dialed down enough for my use. That is the only criticism I have with the SF-58, besides its price that is.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Luke_Miller

[MikeEvangelist]

I shoot occasional weddings, mostly available light. But when I need flash, I found that 24D was just not up to the task. Mainly because it doesn't recycle fast enough.

 

For example, when the wedding procession is coming down the aisle, I could only get one full-power shot per person (especially in a larger/darker church). The 58 solves this nicely; and you get the added benefits you already mentioned.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I'm currently using the older version (a 54Mz3i) with a SCA 3502 in auto mode. I tried GNC mode but the TTL delay was an age. I do have to set the aperture on the flash, but ISO and focal length do get passed through from the camera, so I suppose I've got "semi" TTL.

 

I'd definitely consider the 58 (regardless of the obscene Leica tax) if I could be sure the TTL lag was significantly better than the GNC mode on the 54. Does anyone know if this is the case?

 

Gordon

[jip]

I got one, only used it once earned it back then so made no real profit on that job... only that I now got something I never use

[esquire53]

I would say, yes.

A very flexible flash. I used the 24D as well before and it's okish, but the options are a bit limited, when you want/need the extra power.

I bought the 58 with a Nikkon extension cable some weeks ago and I was impressed that it opens a new range of lighting effects.

 

Having said that, a different Metz or other in the same range can give you similar results, but a few features in auto mode will be missed.

[menos I M6]

Excellent responses and very much appreciated. I suppose the wording for my question was less than ideal. I was primarily wondering if it was worth the expense as compared to my SF-24D.

 

As a business expense it is an immediate write off but if the performance was only marginally better compared to the 24 then I would simply keep using what I have.

 

Coming from 15+ years of shooting Nikon strobes I'm very spoiled by their ease of use, consistency and the capability of the flash system.

 

Time to crack open the wallet again

 

*************

Since the thing is so big, are you guys that are using it employ the Leica or RRS grip to help you control the added weight and balance issues that accompany mounting it on the M9?

 

*************

 

It is a biiiig improvement over the SF-24D in terms of:

 

- faster TTL metering

- fully adjustable head

- integrated diffusor and bounce card

- more flexible Auto modes, zoom and settings capability

- more power

 

It is a a downgrade, as the SF-24D is the perfect unit, to have in the bag for "just in case flash", if the light get's really low and you must use flash, you otherwise wouldn't.

It changes the handling of a Leica M fundamentally and is best used with one of the accessory grips.

It also goes in the way of left eye shooters, as it protrudes significantly into the face of a left eye shooter (I hope, you don't wear glasses and plan on shooting 28mm or even 35mm lenses).

 

I think, if the SF-24D is priced fair according to your perception, the SF-58 upgrade is fairly priced according to it's performance - it's a nice flash and the best option, if TTL, power and swivel head on a Leica M is what you must have.

 

 

Now the fine print:

 

A comparable recent, modern Nikon flash will run circles around the SF-58, both in performance and ESPECIALLY in UI and fast user settings. The Leica flashes are a crutch to use, after shooting a SB-900 on a D3 (which perform in another universe, compared to a M + SF-58).

 

As the Leica TTL is so slow and inefficient, I would rather use a Nikon flash unit on the Leica M or take the SF-24D off the camera with radio triggers in A/M or a sync cord if it must be TTL.

 

Using the SF-58 in A or M mode is S L O W as of the antiquated user interface. While one is still figuring out, how many times, one has to press which button, to raise/lower flash out put, one has the shot done with a Nikon flash already. It is really that dramatic.

 

The Leica branded flash guns are really the antithesis to the Leica M design principles - they are everything but simple and straight forward to use.

 

If money is no issue, buy both a SF-58 for swivel on camera TTL flash power and a Nikon flash for when you want to set things fast in A/M modes ;-)

 

Did I mention, not falling for buying that insult of an additional diffusor for the SF-58?

Did anybody at Metz/Leica actually try, to use this thingy while out and shooting without loosing it every few seconds?

[NikonJeff]

Thank you for all the input guys - The reason I was seriously considering the SF58 due in part to being spoiled by the iTTL performance of my Nikon system and the inflexibility of the SF-24D.

 

The SF24D is nice and small for travel but without the ability to bounce or redirect the light (without using a cord) limits its functionality not to mention the slow recycle time.

 

For now I will use an SB-800 or SB900 on the M9 in Auto or manual and keep my eye open for a killer deal on an SF58.

 

I just purchased a Really Right Stuff base plate and grip to aid balancing the M9 when a flash is attached. Very nice addition to the camera I might add...

 

Thanks again!

Jeff

[menos I M6]

Jeff, there is just no comparison between using TTL flash on a Leica M and iTTL flash on a modern Nikon. There is a huge gap between the two in performance - really not comparable.

 

Buying the SF-58 (for the big amount it costs) will not buy you half way to the Nikon SB-800 performance on a Nikon body.

In terms of usability, flash recovery times, output, performance in Auto and Manual modes, the SF-58 is NO upgrade to your SB-800 on the Leica M.

 

The SF-58 only gains you:

 

- comfort by automatically taking over ISO setting + lens code information from the body

- slow TTL flash (remember - flash, that is based on the simple centerweighted meter of the M, which in combination with flash is very easily confused with unevenly lit frames)

- a second reflector (which has too high output even on it's smallest setting, so must be gel'ed to be usable)

 

I prefer my SB-900 over the SF-58 on the M (if I must use a large flash on the small M, that Nikon flash is, what I grab - otherwise the SF-24D is what I use dialled way down in M, to just give a touch of fill, balanced to ambient at very slow shutter speeds).

[Luke_Miller]

I'm not quite so down on the SF-58 as Dirk. In TTL and slow sync mode the M9 & SF-58 combination produces bounced flash shots that are nicely balanced with the ambient light. I do agree on the secondary flash. I have not found a practical application for it. Even diffused it just creates a second set of shadows that I don't care for. I leave it turned off.

 

I don't find the SF-58 all that slow. Perhaps my SB-800 on my D4 is a bit quicker, but it is not really noticeable IMO. Maybe the reason it can appear slow is because on the M you see the interval between the pre-flash and main flash through the viewfinder (no blackout), while on a DSLR you only see the pre-flash in the viewfinder as the main flash is blacked out by the mirror. So you are unaware of the interval between them. The Nikon flashes do work well on the M9 in Auto mode, but generally I'm trying to balance the flash output with ambient and feel that the SF-58 and TTL work better for me.

[Bill W]

I am no flash expert and rarely use one but I bought the SF 58 soon after it came out. With a little practice I have found it fairly easy to use for my purposes. Yes it is big but the M9 is small. I go over it.

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