Jump to content

5cm Elmar - Flare or Processing Error


Keith (M)

Recommended Posts

My thanks to you all for the helpful suggestions. As the problem has occurred with three films, the cassettes can be ruled out, as now processing can. Pondering on things last night and examining the base plate with a magnifying glass, jc-b's idea of touching the bright parts up with matt-black paint also occurred to me. Must confess I did not notice the potential not-quite-vertical portion though! The flash idea is a very bright one (!) and one I shall carry out post-matt-black paint application. There does seem to be a time-related element to the problem. The worst affected film (>50% frames affected) was in the camera for approximately three weeks, the colour film (circa 30%) ten days and the last film (4 frames) just a day.

 

If all the above fail then it will be sent for repair, with jc-b's suggestion of a shutter problem in mind.

 

Thanks again everybody!

Link to post
Share on other sites

My thanks to you all for the helpful suggestions. As the problem has occurred with three films, the cassettes can be ruled out, as now processing can. Pondering on things last night and examining the base plate with a magnifying glass, jc-b's idea of touching the bright parts up with matt-black paint also occurred to me. Must confess I did not notice the potential not-quite-vertical portion though! The flash idea is a very bright one (!) and one I shall carry out post-matt-black paint application. There does seem to be a time-related element to the problem. The worst affected film (>50% frames affected) was in the camera for approximately three weeks, the colour film (circa 30%) ten days and the last film (4 frames) just a day.

 

If all the above fail then it will be sent for repair, with jc-b's suggestion of a shutter problem in mind.

 

Thanks again everybody!

You can adjust the base wall easily by hand force pressure on a hard flat surface using a piece of bristol paper in between as it is in brass and so ductile.

More easy to do then to explain

The use of an ERC had solven a lot of this kind of problems ;)

Edited by jc_braconi
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

firstly - baseplate is from IIIf, as indicated by SN penciled on it.I do not have now IIIg by the hand to check how good IIIf baseplate fits IIIg.

Secondly, there are light protecting stripes glued behind the frame chamber (on which curtains travel) and on housing, close to self timer. When I am CLA-ing screwmount Leica this is one thing that I always either reglue or replace, depending on their condition. In example of both negatives shown, especially because of sprockets masking it looks like leakege is around take-up spool (as mentioned by another forum members above). In any case I would send it for CLA

jerzy

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

firstly - baseplate is from IIIf, as indicated by SN penciled on it.I do not have now IIIg by the hand to check how good IIIf baseplate fits IIIg.

 

According to the parts lists I have, the part numbers for the baseplate are the same on the -f and -g, so that shouldn't be an issue.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Thanks for the further ideas/suggestions.

 

I did wonder if the different ser. no. on the base plate might be an issue, so good to read that it probably isn't. Taping up the joint was also an idea I had in the long dark hours of the night (as one does!), my first idea was black insulation tape, then thought that might affect the vulcanite/leatherette so then thought masking tape first, then the black tape. I could do that, take a few shots then use more frames whilst using a flashgun on the various potential light-paths (carefully noting the details of course). However, first of all I will use matt-black paint on the interior surfaces of the base plate, take some shots and then follow up with the tape and the flashgun routine.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it will be the silver showing on the inside of the baseplate. But try another scarificial film, and you may narrow it down with tape. Start by masking the back edge of the baseplate, then the front, then the underneath, then the front dials, then the top dials. Make a good long exposure at each setting with the camera out of its case (and held up to the sun or a light) and you may discover the culprit. At least it will help the repairer. The inside of the film take up chamber is very open compared to later Leica's, and I just wonder if a seal hasn't been replaced properly or something like an unseen felt seal has gotten slack.

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, yesterday after much cogitation, I decided to try and force the issue by exposing another film, using long exposures during which I fired a flashgun fitted with a narrow hood at various parts of the body, carefully noting the details of each shot. Result? Zilch, nada, nothing – crystal clear rebates and not a sign of light leakage anywhere…

 

Differences between this film and the others? The body was not in it's snug-fitting Mr Zhou half-case and most of the shots were taken with the camera resting on the kitchen worktop (do not have the right-size tripod thread). Some however were taken with me gripping the body in one hand (portrait and landscape).

One bu**eration factor is that two of the sprocket holes in the narrow part of the leader were torn through, which also happened with (I think) the second film I ever put in the camera. Hopefully there are no fragments floating around.

 

Anyway, back to the drawing board. Bright ideas anyone?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If a hole or leak in the body is to be assumed, it'd be easier to spot if you didn't expose the film at all through the shutter, I'd expect.

 

I don't know exactly what your camera looks like in a half-case. However, if it shows the phenomenon while in the half-case, we could possibly disregard the parts of the body which are covered by it.

 

Ah - intuition strikes (again).

 

Would you be able to locate any holes or leaks if you placed a small torch with a LED lamp in place of the take-up spool and inspected the camera from the outside in a very dark room? Allow your eyes to get accustomed to the dark and remain several minutes there before trying that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think I would have used a flash gun. I know you would get the intensity of light, but it is very directional and this leak may only be from a chink with a very narrow angle of attack. I think I'd have held it up to a desk lamp and rolled the camera around, each time advancing the film and adding (or taking off) a strip of tape to mask each possible area of leak.

 

The only thing I could think of for it happening only with your half case fitted is if the retaining strap was clamped over on a loose strap lug, but then it would be the wrong edge of the film getting the main area of fogging.

 

Steve

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Well, now that Christmas and New Year are out of the way, I decided to stop dithering and take positive action regarding the problem with my IIIg camera body. No point in having a camera that you cannot trust, so it is currently winging it’s way back to the dealer (Red Dot Cameras) for assessment etc. Hopefully the light leak will not take too long to find and repair.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Well, now that Christmas and New Year are out of the way, I decided to stop dithering and take positive action regarding the problem with my IIIg camera body. No point in having a camera that you cannot trust, so it is currently winging it’s way back to the dealer (Red Dot Cameras) for assessment etc. Hopefully the light leak will not take too long to find and repair.

 

Il est de retour ! Es ist zurückgekehrt! Freshly delivered this morning from Red Dot - apparently new a new blind and light seals fitted. Now armed with my 'new' 1955 Summicron 5cm and about to be loaded with a roll of Tri-X ready for testing.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Il est de retour ! Es ist zurückgekehrt! Freshly delivered this morning from Red Dot - apparently new a new blind and light seals fitted. Now armed with my 'new' 1955 Summicron 5cm and about to be loaded with a roll of Tri-X ready for testing.

 

Scream! I shot the roll of Tri-X on Wednesday afternoon and developed it that evening. No improvement at all - still showing shadowing of the rebates and damaged negs as before. :( The camera is already on it's way back to Red Dot's repairer (he had not tested the camera, just replaced the parts he thought might be causing the problem). My sense of humour is rapidly diminishing as are my film stocks, chemicals and budget. It is all getting quite expensive in not only monetary terms but time-wise as well. Nothing worse than an unreliable camera...

 

As with all the previous films, not every frame is affected and the extent seems to depend on how long the film is in the camera. Anyway, one of the unaffected frames can be seen here, taken with my newly arrived Summicron 5cm.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • 4 years later...

Still the IIIg repair/test attempts continue... Updated blog entry.

 

Keith

Did you ever resolve the light leak issue?

I have a iiig with a similar problem.

Film cassette and developing causes have been ruled out.

Photo attached showing the affected areas. The leak also extends to the edge of the film.

Not every frame is affected.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

finding the leak shouldn't be all that difficult. take the stripe of film with the fogging on it and make some good visible marks on it where the light might have come in. then figure out the orientation of the film when it was in the camera - remember the picture on the film is upside down and mirorred. then put the stripe of film into the camera an put one frame exactly in front of the shutterframe. then you can see from your markings, in wich area the potential leaking took place. there should be two or three places for choice.

 

remember, that the film winds after every single picture. try to remember, which fram was taken first and how quick they were taken. find the negative with the heaviest fogging and find the negative taken with the longest delay between pictures. put the last one in front of the shutter and see where the most fogged frame comes to sit. there you are able to find the one spot, where the light came in. et voilà.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...