Lens code for new APO 50 f/2??? Confusion???

[Robert_M]

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When firmware 1.176 was released, I was playing with the lens codes and found that there was provision for a new 50mm f/2 lens code in the firmware. The was code 53-3 (110101 with 50/75 frame). The link below and surrounding posts in the thread has the discussion.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/187141-owners-brand-new-apo-telyt-m-2.html#post1748448

 

Last May, when the new AA 50mm f/2 was released, 01af confirmed this code in the following post when he was able to handle the new lens for a few minutes.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/240243-thein-review-50mm-apo-summicron-4.html#post2084489

 

Well, I have been poking around some more with the lens codes in the new firmware 1.196. (All of the above information was with firmware 1.176.) And, I find that 53-3 is NO LONGER encoded in the new firmware. Instead, the code 55-3 (110111 and frame 50/75) is coded for a 50mm f/2 lens. Presumably, this is the new AA 50mm lens.

 

I understand that there are not yet any deliveries of the AA 50mm lens production, there were just some test examples available with obvious restrictions. It seems that those early examples were coded 53-3 to use the existing firmware and that now the production units will have a new lens code of 55-3. This avoids the sharing of code 53 with the 135/3.4 lens. The Leica release notes for firmware 1.196 do indeed mention that the code for the AA 50mm lens was added, but those release notes do not mention that a different code was already there in firmware 1.176.

 

It would be useful if anyone can confirm this (or refute it). I must say I'm a little puzzled and confused by why the new coding is done.

 

BTW, I can repeat that code 54-1 (110110 frame 28/90) does indicate a 28mm f/1.4 lens in firmware 1.196. I had reported this already when 1.196 was issued. The fact that code 54 was skipped over for the AA 50mm would lead one to believe that code is indeed reserved for a new 28 f/1.4 lens.

 

RM

[01af]

I find that 53-3 is NO LONGER encoded in the new firmware. Instead, the code 55-3 (110111 and frame 50/75) is coded for a 50 mm f/2 lens. Presumably, this is the new Apo-Summicron-M 50 mm Asph lens.

How did you find this? Are you absolutely sure you didn't make some mistake? The lens code 55 is for the new R adapter.

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[trond]

I had the opportunity to test this lens at Photokina.

 

Checking one of the images taken with this lens with ExifTool gives the following result:

 

Lens Type : Unknown (41 3)

 

Anyone that can decipher the ExifTool info?

 

Camera is M9-P with FW 1.196

 

The lens is listed as APO-Summicron 50mm in LR4.3.

 

Best regards

 

Trond

Edited November 19, 2012 by trond

[tobey bilek]

Probably no code established yet so they are doing demos with generic. The R code is a null code that does nothing unless a r lens is selected from a menu in addition.

[Robert_M]

How did you find this? Are you absolutely sure you didn't make some mistake? The lens code 55 is for the new R adapter.

 

I coded my 135/3.4 APO Telyt-M lens with a new flange (exchanged the flange) using proper code 53-2 (110101 and frame 35/135). This works correctly. With that lens mounted, one can then use the frame lever to get frame 3 (50/75 frame). In firmware 1.176 this will indicate a 50mm f/2 lens on the M9 display with the info button. In firmware 1.196, the indication is now "uncoded" (or unknown).

 

I also have a CV 50/1.5 LTM lens which I use with a coded Metabones adapter (LTM to M mount) which uses the proper 50/75 frame. I simply coded that adapter as 110111 (code 55) and tried it on the M9. The info screen shows it is a lens called 50mm f/2.

 

The code 55 R adapter is probably using 55-0 code (non existent frame) if it is only entered via the menu. That is done with several other lenses which do not have hardware coding. Or, is the R adapter going to have a hard code on the mount flange?

 

RM

[Robert_M]

I had the opportunity to test this lens at Photokina.

 

Checking one of the images taken with this lens with ExifTool gives the following result:

 

Lens Type : Unknown (41 3)

 

Anyone that can decipher the ExifTool info?

 

Camera is M9-P with FW 1.196

 

The lens is listed as APO-Summicron 50mm in LR4.3.

 

Best regards

 

Trond

 

 

Well, that is interesting. I'll have to go try that coding. Since code 41 was an unused code in the long list of surrounding used numbers, I was actually going to go try that but have not. It was easier to try code 55 and I just stopped trying when I re-found a new 50mm f/2 lens.

 

RM

[algrove]

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If you take a look at my MM images from Photokina, I downloaded a shot of the new R Adapter showing its 6 bit coding and I was told that IS the coding for it.

[01af]

I had the opportunity to test this lens at Photokina. Checking one of the images taken with this lens with ExifTool gives the following result:

 

Lens Type : Unknown (41 3)

 

Anyone that can decipher the ExifTool info? Camera is M9-P with FW 1.196. The lens is listed as "Apo-Summicron 50mm f/2 ASPH." in Lr 4.3.

I can confirm the code 41—because Adobe Bridge CS6 also is aware of this code and properly interprets it as "Apo-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH."

 

 

In firmware 1.176, [the code 53-3] will indicate a 50 mm f/2 lens on the M9 display with the Info button. In firmware 1.196, the indication is now "uncoded". [...] I simply coded that adapter as 110111 (code 55) and tried it on the M9. The info screen shows it is a lens called 50mm f/2.

I guess both codes 53 and 55 in conjunction with the 50/75 framelines being interpreted as "50mm f/2" are, and always were, just red herrings in the firmware. The mis-interpretation of code 53-3 now is fixed in firmware v1.196; the mis-interpretation of code 55-3 isn't ... yet.

 

Moreover, I guess the actual code for the Apo 50 always was 41 (the fact that Bridge knows this code indicates so) ... and we just failed to notice because we were deceived by the false 53 code. I had a sample of the Apo 50 lens in my own hand earlier this year—and failed to check the pattern of black and white patches on the bayonet flange because I just "knew" it was 53.

 

 

The code 55 R adapter is probably using 55-0 code (non-existent frame) if it is only entered via the menu.

Definitely not. The R adapter has the six patches on the bayonet flange, and it cannot be selected via the menu. Unfortunately, I don't know which framelines get selected when the adapter is attached to the camera—but the frameline code cannot be zero. Umm, wait... in theory, it can. It would mean the camera simply ignores the framelines mechanically selected. This would make it easier for users to hand-code 3rd-party R-to-M adapters because they weren't required to select the same framelines as the original Leica R adapter does.

Edited November 20, 2012 by 01af

[marknorton]

Has anyone received this lens yet? As was the case for the two wide Summiluxes and the f0.95 Noctilux, Leica are taking forever to get it into production, maybe trying to avoid a recall like that of the 21mm Super Elmar.

 

I won't even mention the S CS lenses...

[trond]

I have heard from three European dealers that the APO 50 deliveries has been postponed until March 2013.

[algrove]

Leica Store Washington, DC says they anticipate delivery in early 2013, but in very small numbers.

[algrove]

Definitely not. The R adapter has the six patches on the bayonet flange, and it cannot be selected via the menu. Unfortunately, I don't know which framelines get selected when the adapter is attached to the camera—but the frameline code cannot be zero. Umm, wait... in theory, it can. It would mean the camera simply ignores the framelines mechanically selected. This would make it easier for users to hand-code 3rd-party R-to-M adapters because they weren't required to select the same framelines as the original Leica R adapter does.

 

You know after using the R adapter on the M with the 28-90 R lens it does not have any frame lines and they were pushing the LV for use with it since the lenses do not fit into the frame line formula. As I said the back then, the Adapter when the camera is set on auto detect , lets one select from a drop down list of 21 R lenses. This is intended for use with LV not rangefinder use. Thus my comment is that no frame lines are selected when it is mounted on the M.

[01af]

Thus my comment is that no frame lines are selected when it is mounted on the M.

With an R lens mounted to the M via the R adapter, did you take a look through the optical viewfinder?

[algrove]

With an R lens mounted to the M via the R adapter, did you take a look through the optical viewfinder?

 

No, they were highlighting LV and I wonder if it was even working when the R Adapter was mounted. I did have them mount a 135 to see how it would focus also with LV and of course it brought up the normal frame lines in the OVF.

 

I will make some calls/emails to see if I can get some form of a specific answer.

 

Perhaps our LFI man, mjh, can get an answer faster.

Edited November 22, 2012 by algrove

[algrove]

If the R Adapter is mounted on an M9, it is focus by trial and error since there is no LV nor rangefinder coupling. So does this mean there is no rangefinder coupling possible with the R Adapter? Perhaps. Still researching.

 

Difficult here with the Thanksgiving Holiday and many "faire le pont" on Friday.

[01af]

If the R Adapter is mounted on an M9, it is focus by trial-and-error since there is no [...] rangefinder coupling. So does this mean there is no rangefinder coupling possible with the R Adapter?

Of course there isn't.

 

Still, the question remains: What pair of framelines will show up in the optical viewfinder when the Leica R Adapter is attached?

 

Oh, wait. It just dawns to me it's possible that no framelines will show up in the M's viewfinder at all. After all, the framelines are illuminated via LED, and the camera might just switch off the LED when the 6-bit lens code 55 is recognised. So in order to see what framelines the R Adapter will select, one may have to try on any Leica M camera but the M Type 240.

[algrove]

I agree-no frame lines are present with the R adapter since there is no coupling, but still awaiting confirmation from anyone who knows the answer for sure.

[01af]

I agree—no frame lines are present with the R adapter since there is no coupling ...

Umm ... do you understand how an M camera works?

[algrove]

Umm ... do you understand how an M camera works?

 

There is no rangefinder coupling on an M9 when using the new R adapter.

Edited November 23, 2012 by algrove

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[marknorton]

Oh, wait. It just dawns to me it's possible that no framelines will show up in the M's viewfinder at all. After all, the framelines are illuminated via LED, and the camera might just switch off the LED when the 6-bit lens code 55 is recognised. So in order to see what framelines the R Adapter will select, one may have to try on any Leica M camera but the M Type 240.

 

That's an interesting thought... The M viewfinder is completely redundant when the R-Adapter is fitted, so no point displaying any framelines.