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pwrdesign

I need help! M8 vs XPRO-1

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Found a few more who's interested in a trade, but what does this mean? (is it a common problem):

 

"There are, as on pretty much every M8 with new firmware, visible dead pixels.

Though this is mapped the raw files, and if lightroom/photoshop is used, this is removed by the software."

 

 

I would not buy a M8 with a dead pixel. It is repairable, but not as inexpensive as I would like.(See thread I started on this issue if you are interested). Buy a good camera from a reputable source and hope for the best.

 

Leica cameras are not inexpensive. Buying a used M8 can be a great deal. You may purchase one and never have another problem. However, you may also end up with an expensive repair. I made the decision to purchase a used M8. In my case - and in hindsight - the new M9 with a warranty would have cost me a similar amount in depreciation and repairs and I would have had a better camera. Your outcome may be different. I am not complaining - I made a decision - spun the wheel - and took my chances. I still have a nice camera that I enjoy using.

 

An analogy: Purchase a new compact automobile or a used Mercedes Benz? Some people purchase a used Mercedes and brag about how it was trouble free. Others - purchase very expensive repairs. Those with bad outcomes usually don't brag about how unwise their purchase decision was and their stories are less common. Others purchase the compact automobile. The fortunate Mercedes Benz purchasers (those without repairs) can't possibly understand why others would purchase a compact automobile for the same price.

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BTW - I just looked at your posted photographs. Very nice work and you have a beautiful family. Best wishes and welcome to the Leica Forum.

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Ok, thanks! I will think it over...it was mapped 1 year ago. Except from that in great cond...Handgrip and extra battery incl.

 

No lens included but I think that the seller are intrested in trading with money in between so I can afford a reasonable starting lens. (CV 35/1.4, zeiss 35/2.8)

 

The long term goal is the Leica 35mm Summilux..

 

Thank you for your comments about my photos!

 

Here are some new ones!

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r8ks3pl0mi0v6fv/3wgt8ZsVe_

Edited by pwrdesign

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Just stumbled into this one - I have M8 and Fuji X100, Fuji bought because of M8's very poor low light performance and my need for "normal looking" pictures of events - f5.6 or f8.

 

I'm going to spoil the fun on this question, you'll miss auto focus and Fuji auto functions as soon as you give it away.

 

M8 will give more creative freedom but can be quite frustrating if you just want a normal everyday shot of something.

 

My advice, for what its worth, is first try your X Pro 1 with a manual lens, do a bit of research on which Leica or Voigtlander lenses perform well on the Fuji, I've heard some can be quite disappointing. Some of the very much cheaper Voigtlander lenses can produce spectacular results I love my Color Skopar 21( very cheap) you don't have to worry about f4.5 because you can crank up the ISO.

 

If you are set on an M then I think it is a matter of Fuji + Leica not just Leica on its own.

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Errr... Did you have Leica lenses without aperture ring?

 

Just stumbled into this one - I have M8 and Fuji X100, Fuji bought because of M8's very poor low light performance and my need for

"normal looking" pictures of events - f5.6 or f8.

 

 

I'm going to spoil the fun on this question, you'll miss auto focus and Fuji auto functions as soon as you give it away.

 

M8 will give more creative freedom but can be quite frustrating if you just want a normal everyday shot of something.

 

My advice, for what its worth, is first try your X Pro 1 with a manual lens, do a bit of research on which Leica or Voigtlander lenses perform well on the Fuji, I've heard some can be quite disappointing. Some of the very much cheaper Voigtlander lenses can produce spectacular results I love my Color Skopar 21( very cheap) you don't have to worry about f4.5 because you can crank up the ISO.

 

If you are set on an M then I think it is a matter of Fuji + Leica not just Leica on its own.

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That's a rather blunt way of putting it Jaapv! of course all my lenses have an aperture ring but...Leica M even with @ max 640 ISO hand held at f8 is going to be very challenging and out of the question if the subject is moving, 1.2 will just about get you there but the result is so arty thatpic would be unusable for my purposes.

 

X100 3200 ISO f8 absolutely no worries at all.

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Yes, I know about the MF/AF thingy, but I've been shooting alot with Olympus OM-1, Hasselblad 500C, and I really like Manual Focusing, and I don't like all the extra features that's in the XPRO-1, even though I'm free to use it (or not) I'm just searching for that thing that forces me to just focus on creating the image.

 

Photography is 99% feelings for me, that's the only thing forcing me thowards this change... I know that the high ISO shots will look terrible in color, and I know that I wont afford a good leica lens atm, which will result in less sharp images compared to the XPRO-1 that produces some stunning photos.

 

At the moment, I'm almost willing to trade my XPRO-1 with 35/1.4 and 18/2.0 + extra battery against a "mapped" M8 with Summicron 40/2.0, just to get the last % of feeling that will make me feel good about photography again.

 

BUT, and this is a huge BUT, how does this dead pixel thingy work out?

Leica did some mapping 2 years ago, meaning what?

The seller dosnt see the dead pixels when he open the DNG files in Photoshop or Lightroom, nor when he's saved out a JPG.

 

He did send me some raw files, from low iso to high iso, and on all of them I can see a purple, 1 pixle wide vertical line on the right side of the image, going almost all the way from the bottom to the top. Is this what's referred as dead pixels?

 

Here is an image of it:

 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3381073/Priv/L1001215edited_iso2500.jpg

 

This looks pretty bad to me? What can be done in my software to "get rid" of this? Apprently he dosn't see it in his software (lightroom or PS). Have he got some kind of profile that he got from the mapping done at Leica? That I need to load into my Photoshop?

 

Wont Leica change this kind of thing?

What would the cost be?

 

// Patrik

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That's a rather blunt way of putting it Jaapv! of course all my lenses have an aperture ring but...Leica M even with @ max 640 ISO hand held at f8 is going to be very challenging and out of the question if the subject is moving, 1.2 will just about get you there but the result is so arty thatpic would be unusable for my purposes.

 

X100 3200 ISO f8 absolutely no worries at all.

Sorry, if you cannot get excellent results @ ISO 1250 on the M8 there is something wrong with the postprocessing or the exposure technique.

By your standards photography with colour film is impossible. There you cannot go beyond 800 without running into serious grain. Yet, there were photographs of excellent quality taken before digital took over...

Edited by jaapv

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Sorry, if you cannot get excellent results @ ISO 1250 on the M8 there is something wrong with the postprocessing or the exposure technique.

By your standards photography with colour film is impossible. There you cannot go beyond 800 without running into serious grain. Yet, there were photographs of excellent quality taken before 2000...

 

I think you are being purposely perverse on this one, introducing all sorts of weird things like film photography, implications of user inadequacy etc all avoiding the absolute glaring truth that Fuji X can go places that an M8 finds very difficult.

 

I stick to my belief that the OP should keep his Fuji, try Leica or Voigtlander lenses on it, or keep his XP1 and buy an M8.

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Stop you 2!

 

I agree that the XP-1 produces as good and in some situations better image quality than a M8, but thats not important for me, if I need to take technical good photos I still have my 5DMKII with good lenses.

 

If I had the money I would keep the XP1, get one M8 AND one M9. But I cant, and atm with the XP1 I'm glad with the image quality but I miss something else.

 

Now, how bad is the dead pixel on the one I'm about to trade with? Is it possible to live with, letting lightroom 3 or http://www.pixelfixer.org/ deal with removing it for example?

 

// Patrik

Edited by pwrdesign

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advice taken Patrik - 5d m2 + plus good, mint perfect M8 is the way to go, swap is not the only way, you could sell Fuji body + standard lens, and a separate listing for the other lens on eBay - and buy a "Good" M8

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Well, I'll probably get about 1500 eur for the body + 18/2.0 + extra batt, and 500 more for the 35/1.4, thats 2000 euro.

 

A M8 body is about 2000 euro at least, and then I have to get a lens.

 

If I do the trade I get the camera (crome, mint cond external) handgrip (that I can sell if I want), extra battery and a leica 40/2.0 (not the best lens but good enough to start with)

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I just had problems with them. The whole program:

- vertical line issue

- inaccurate rangefinder (had to be adjusted several times)

- occasional system lockups when shooting

- occasional sd card failures

 

Apart from that it really went on my nerves having to use cornerfix and these bloody IR-filters.

Never got those problems so far (M8.2) and i don't even know how does Cornerfix work. I don't use wider lenses than 21mm though.

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A 40/2.0 is not just a decent lens to start with, it is a lens that is perfectly matched to the M8. It is one of my all-time favorites.

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Sorry, if you cannot get excellent results @ ISO 1250 on the M8 there is something wrong with the postprocessing or the exposure technique.

By your standards photography with colour film is impossible. There you cannot go beyond 800 without running into serious grain. Yet, there were photographs of excellent quality taken before digital took over...

 

This was when 80 horsepowers was considered exceptional for dad's sedan. These days 300 hp is nothing to rave about anymore. But for the conoisseurs the 80 hp Alfa from the sixties is way more fun to drive than the computer controlled 2012 automobile. Technology changes, and one might even call it progress from a pure rational standpoint. However, the pure user experience a M provides is unique and worth a premium for many (including me), and the lenses are unmatched.

New senor and processor technology improve IQ. But they do not help producing QI (quality images).

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But for the conoisseurs the 80 hp Alfa from the sixties is way more fun to drive than the computer controlled 2012 automobile.

 

yes and no.

 

older cars have more character....sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. modern cars have more character but have A LOT BETTER performance. These 2 different products can both be enjoyable in different ways; appreciated for different features. Braking in an older car is a horrifying, not-so-enjoyable experience. Body roll around the corners is equally nauseating. The sounds and smells of an older car are delightful, and thus create an experience.

 

a 'computer controlled' car does not mean it is boring.....on the contrary they can be VERY exciting and enjoyable.

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yes and no.

 

older cars have more character....sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way. modern cars have more character but have A LOT BETTER performance. These 2 different products can both be enjoyable in different ways; appreciated for different features. Braking in an older car is a horrifying, not-so-enjoyable experience. Body roll around the corners is equally nauseating. The sounds and smells of an older car are delightful, and thus create an experience.

 

a 'computer controlled' car does not mean it is boring.....on the contrary they can be VERY exciting and enjoyable.

 

I don't diagree. But there is a subtle difference and experince in driving or almost being driven.

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My first car, when i was 18, was a Chevrolet Nova from 1977, that say it all

 

I just cant get rid of the dead pixel, lightroom 4 dosnt automatically remove it..

 

Will try the free pixelfilter software

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