35, 50 Summicron vs Summarit

[Marignac]

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Hey all,

 

- in the 35mm range I work with the latest design Cron 35/2 asph and the latest design CV Nokton 35/1.2 asph II

- in the 50mm range I use a Cron 50/2 VI (focus tab and no extractable shade) and a CV Nokton 50/1.5 asph.

 

I have decided not to change to Luxes since the CV do a tremendous work full open except for CAs which are well controllable in LR. Yet the CV are way of bulky and tend to what I'd call a more "dreamy character". So they are perfect for AL but not necessarily for travel, landscapes being among my favourite topics.

 

The Crons are smaller&lighter and less "dreamy". Yet they don't produce images as crisp as the Summarit 75 does, which is one of my absolute favourite lenses of all times. So the question is: will the fuzz of selling the crons and purchasing the equivalent Summarits serve to satisfy my desire for compact weight&shape and crisp images with optimal resoultion?

 

The Summarit 35 is 0.6mm longer (a draw in my view), the Summarit 50 is 1.5mm longer. So that does not seem to be much of a change. But what about imagery - do the Summarites produce noticeably different, more crisp images?

 

I should add that in the long run a Fuji X-E1 will be added and lenses should do a great job on that camera as well (besides the M9 that is).

[toyfel]

if you refer to sharpness when you say crisp, then I'd guess that the 30 and 50 summarits are about equal but not better than the crons. I like the summarits mostly for the small size (not much difference to the crons but, for me, every millimeter counts). I like them even more because I can use them without lens hood and haven't had much probs with flare so far.

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[TomB_tx]

I had a similar dilemma. I've used 1969 35&50 Summicrons since bought new back then, and also used the CV 35 1.4 Nokton and 50 1.5 Nokton. I think the 50 1.5 may be Voigtlander's best lens, but at times the CA does pop up. My 35 1.4 is actually sharper at f2 than my Summicron, but the CA and focus shift are sometimes issues. Still, overall I have loved both the Summicrons, but they are normally on my film cameras.

I was tempted by the 50 Summarit for its size and possibly more modern contrast; but finally got a new Summicron, and am very pleased with the incremental improvements (esp. wide open) over my v3. I like smoothness over "pop."

The 35 1.2 is too bulky for me, and the new Lux is outside my budget. I debated the Summarit, but bought a Zeiss 35 f2. Still bulkier than I like, and I've been disappointed, as the CV 1.4 still seemed sharper at f2.0; but I finally realized the Zeiss was front-focusing, making it soft at f2. It's being fixed, but a 35 Summarit may be in my future too. I like compact lenses.

[Marignac]

Flares is in fact a difficult situation for the Cron 35. It does not produce CA but a milky glow I do not like very much. This is generally a hard situation for any lens, but I think the Summarit 75 I do have is getting along a lot better than this (BTW - hats off to the Tamron 28-75/2.8 which handles exactly these situations perfectly!)

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[wda]

I would try using gradient filters in Lightroom 4, from both top and bottom of the first picture. I am sure that would help minimise the effects of flaring. Both subjects are keen tests of any lens.

 

I think all modern Leica lenses outperform their much older siblings, depending on what image qualities are paramount for you.

[skinnfell]

The 35 and 50 summarits are very small and very "crisp".

However, as other posters have said, if you already have crons, dont bother with exchanging them, it will be a lot of fuss for a step sideways.

There are pros and cons to both lenses, but all in all they are pretty equal in terms of imagery. Keep in mind that summarits are designed in a more "classical" way than ASPHs.

 

The 50cron you have is very small and good, in fact I have that exact same lens and it is my most used lens. F2 is fast enough for me, even indoors, but then I am not afraid of iso 2500.

Got the M on order so that will take care of my low light stuff for a good while.

 

My advice: keep your lenses and save your money for either a new camera or another lens (or god forbid, something not related to photography!)

[skinnfell]

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Flares is in fact a difficult situation for the Cron 35. It does not produce CA but a milky glow I do not like very much. This is generally a hard situation for any lens, but I think the Summarit 75 I do have is getting along a lot better than this (BTW - hats off to the Tamron 28-75/2.8 which handles exactly these situations perfectly!)

 

These pictures do not look like they come from the 35 cron asph.... Are you using the correct hood, and is there a filter involved?

The 35/2 asph has a tendency for magenta flare, but i have never seen anything as bad as this...

[IWC Doppel]

I would consider a 28 Summicron this lens is remarkably resolving and will equal or better the 75 Summarit for resolution and contrast and will also keep the classic Leica look to out if focus rendering. If you chasing wide angle clarity look no further

[Fgcm]

Hi Marignac,

I agree with you: Sumarit 75 is a very special lens. I love it.

The rendering is close to Summilux 50 Asph, but crisper.

 

After testing myself, I bought both Summarit 35 and Summarit 50.

Summarit 35 is in many ways better than Summicron.

Summarit 50 is on par with Summicron, but smaller and lighter.

 

I use the hood, but just to protect the front lens from rain, bumps, fingerprints etc.

 

Never had a single flair issue.

 

Franco

[MarkP]

I would consider a 28 Summicron this lens is remarkably resolving and will equal or better the 75 Summarit for resolution and contrast and will also keep the classic Leica look to out if focus rendering. If you chasing wide angle clarity look no further

 

Agreed. It's a spectacular lens which is one of my two all-time favorites. Works very well with a 50 or 75.

[Marignac]

Skinfell: heureka! Score one for excellent analysis: Yes it is the current 35 Cron asph, yes the hood was mounted, BUT: yes, a filter was involved! I have completely forgotten about that! I used the cron on my M8 with an IR filter of course. When I changed to M9 I left the filter on because I couldn't detect any difference in resolution or chromatic rendering, so I thought I left it mounted as a sort of lens protection. But now as you make that remark, I recall having read that IR filters might be able to cause those effects. I will remove that damn thing and see if that mends that special behaviour. And thanks for pointing out that I won't probably experience much difference but a lot of an hassle trading the lenses.

 

WDA: of course I do much work on LR. I chose those unedited pictures to demonstrate the worst this lens can offer. There numerous pics however on my site Rue Marignac that showcase the quality of the lens combined with LR editing.

 

IWC (why "doppel"? You've got two watches?): in fact I'm in the market for a 28 or a 24. For that focal length I don't need f2.0, f2.8 will do. I am currently thinking about 28 Elmarit or 24 Biogon (good in view of X-E1 crop) or 28 Biogon. I've been told those Biogons don't stay behind the Elmarit. Do they?

 

All: thanks very much, your advice is much appreciated and confirm my inherent laziness to leave everything as it is! I will look for a 24/28 lens plus a Fuji X-E1.

 

And, of course - the 35 Cron can do better than shown before:

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[MarkP]

Hi Marignac,

I agree with you: Sumarit 75 is a very special lens. I love it.

The rendering is close to Summilux 50 Asph, but crisper.

 

After testing myself, I bought both Summarit 35 and Summarit 50.

Summarit 35 is in many ways better than Summicron.

Summarit 50 is on par with Summicron, but smaller and lighter.

 

I use the hood, but just to protect the front lens from rain, bumps, fingerprints etc.

 

Never had a single flair issue.

 

Franco

Although I have no experience with the 2.5/50 Summarit I do agree that the 2.5/35 Summarit is a fantastic lens which I specifically chose instead of the 2.0/35 Summicron - the decision not based on price.

 

I also have the 1.4/35 ASPH FLE but often reach for the 35 Summarit instead. And flare with the Summarit...what flare.

 

Do not think that you are in any way getting an inferior lens in the Summarit (oh, except for the inferior price:))

[Marignac]

Summarit 35 is in many ways better than Summicron.

Summarit 50 is on par with Summicron, but smaller and lighter.

Ah, Franco, I just thought I could close the matter and lay back on the sofa, now you make that point! So, why do you think Summarit is in many ways better than Cron?

[Fgcm]

Marignac, Summarit has more macro contrast and is flare-free.

Both are razor sharp.

I use the shade to protect the lens from rain droplets, not from sun.

Focus is faster and less “greasy”.

Distortion is just visible, but easy corrected in post production (when needed).

Color rendering is the same, just different in macro contrast (easy to correct in post prod.)

 

The same for Summarit 50: less flare than Summicron (much less) and just a very little less sharp in the corners at short distance. At longer distance (15m) I do not see any difference from F2,5.

 

Mark, I had a Summilux 35 asph too and I realized that the Summiulx was lazy resting into the box while the Summarit was making the job.

If I write that Summarit is more useful than Summilux in real photography, this tread will peak to one million posts just to say that Summilux 35 Asph is the best lens ever and that I'm a moron.

So I can say that the best lens ever is so best that it has the right to delegate boring daily jobs to the little Summarit

 

Franco

[skinnfell]

IWC (why "doppel"? You've got two watches?):

 

The International Watch Company (IWC) doppel(chronograph) is a famous watch. It has double stop watch functions. (doppel means double in german). Completely mechanical.

However, most people who know what this is are likely to have, or at least aspire to own more than one watch. (in fact several more...)

 

The mechanical watch aquisition syndrome is very similar to the leica gear aquisition syndrome. It can be expensive to have both...

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[Marignac]

If I write that Summarit is more useful than Summilux in real photography, this tread will peak to one million posts just to say that Summilux 35 Asph is the best lens ever and that I'm a moron.

So I can say that the best lens ever is so best that it has the right to delegate boring daily jobs to the little Summarit

I have long abandoned the notion that expensive means good per se. So many different criteria! And does a CV Nokton 1.2/35 asph and a Summarit give one Lux FLE? Of course not, since each stand for different characteristics. I don't see any sense in mounting to a fullframe camera a 4,000 EUR lens. I'd rather split that sum in different lenses with different characteristics, even risking to go out with the wrong one. As Summarit 35 and Nokton 35/1.2 in some way seem to be natural antagonists, I'd rather go that way than spending all the budgets on one lens that sits way in-between.

 

The International Watch Company (IWC) doppel(chronograph) is a famous watch. It has double stop watch functions.

If wasn't Marignac I'd become Sinn-Simple (pun intended ).

[IWC Doppel]

The International Watch Company (IWC) doppel(chronograph) is a famous watch. It has double stop watch functions. (doppel means double in german). Completely mechanical.

However, most people who know what this is are likely to have, or at least aspire to own more than one watch. (in fact several more...)

 

The mechanical watch aquisition syndrome is very similar to the leica gear aquisition syndrome. It can be expensive to have both...

 

I've been rumbled my copy is an 'original' late 90's Doppelchronograph, I did take a look round IWC in Schaffhousen and was glad that I'm saving for a Noctilux, I tried on the new Doppelchronograph which has a 46mm case .... Huge, my model has the same movement in a 42mm case

 

Sorry to go off topic, I have heard very good things about the 35 Summarit, but the only side by side shots I have seen vs the ASPH the images looked a little flatter. I think it depends on the look you are wanting and still think stretching for a used 28 Summicron would be worth a thought, or even a 28 Elmarit ASPH ?

 

It's worth looking at the MTF's of the Summarit and Summicron stopped down to f4 or 5.6 if you will be shooting in the daylight and looking for resolution. Don't forget you will need to buy a hood for the Summarit.

[Marignac]

 

Sorry to go off topic, I have heard very good things about the 35 Summarit, but the only side by side shots I have seen vs the ASPH the images looked a little flatter. I think it depends on the look you are wanting and still think stretching for a used 28 Summicron would be worth a thought, or even a 28 Elmarit ASPH ?

Ah, yes, that was another question: Biogon 24/28 2.8 or Elmarit 28?

[Fgcm]

Elmarit 28 asph. The smaller the better!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[IWC Doppel]

I have not tried either but the MTF's and reports from the Leica are very positive. The price on the secondhand market is also quite good. I suspect the Zeiss is very good too, but I prefer to have Leica glass tbh, probably for no good reason....