Interview about Leica M video function with Jesko Von Oeynhausen

[Archiver]

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I don't think this has been posted here before. It's an interview with the Leica M product manager Jesko Von Oeynhausen about the video function of the upcoming camera.

 

The new Leica M as a filmmaker’s tool – an interview with Leica’s Jesko von Oeynhausen | EOSHD.com

 

Important points:

 

- pixel averaging rather than line skipping, the latter usually resulting in moire. So far the M has very minimal moire, if at all, even without an AA filter.

 

- Leica seem to be taking the video function fairly seriously, not just as an add-on.

 

- mjpeg codec is ALL-I, bitrate is 4-2-2 subsampling and currently has 40mbs bitrate, which is decent and higher than AVCHD, and they are looking at increasing the bitrate before product release.

 

- focus peaking is available in video mode

 

- no HDMI output = no external recorder

 

- no 60p but switchable 24/25p framerate

 

I'm quite excited about this now. By the sounds of it, if they get this right, the video quality will be more than acceptable for family and travel, and possibly useful for professional production. There's no provision for an external recorder but I think the M isn't going to be a production camera, it's more a run and gun, on the scene camera.

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[jaapv]

Actually it was linked to before, but as that post is virtually unfindable it is a good idea to do so again.

[sisoje]

I will be using the new M for video as well... I am so glad now that I gave up on Canon DSLR fever and never went for 5D MKIII (although MKII is one of my most used tools both still and video)... Combined with variety of lenses (Zeiss Contax) it will give me much needed flexibility and higher recording rate of 422 ( I just hope they beef it up to industry standard of 50mbit...).

I bit dissapointed for lack of hdmi out, and wondering if this problem can be solved by future adapter that plugs in to evf slot and gives out hdmi (for possible monitors and pro evfs like Zacuto, SmallHD etc...). That would round up the circle as new M being a great b roll camera for more serious stuff...

In any case, I am waiting spring with excitement!...

[ShotCapture]

I don't understand: "What is the maximum recording time?

Jesko: We’re limited to 4GB file sizes for file format (FAT) reasons."

What does this indicate as far as how long you can record.

[gravastar]

I don't understand: "What is the maximum recording time?

Jesko: We’re limited to 4GB file sizes for file format (FAT) reasons."

What does this indicate as far as how long you can record.

Is it not possible that some time in the future they could seamlessly span a recording across several 4GB files in a similar manner to Olympus digital audio recorders?

 

There is also the issue of the 29 minute, 59 second limit currently applied to digital cameras in order to prevent them from being classified as video recorders which attract 5.6% duty. However that may be ending soon if the World Trade Organization’s Information Technology Agreement is extended to include video cameras.

 

Bob.

Edited November 5, 2012 by gravastar

[ShotCapture]

So does your answer mean that a movie can be no longer than 29 minutes and 59 seconds at the present time on the M?

[gravastar]

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So does your answer mean that a movie can be no longer than 29 minutes and 59 seconds at the present time on the M?

 

I don't know the answer to that. Nowhere have I seen the recording times for the M (240) quoted. However I would not be suprised if there is the 29m 59s limit. Elsewhere people are asking why some camera phones don't have that limit.

 

Bob.

[giordano]

So does your answer mean that a movie can be no longer than 29 minutes and 59 seconds at the present time on the M?

 

It means that no shot or take can be longer than 29 minutes and 59 seconds.

[SJP]

Presumably you can store as many 4GB files as your card will take.

 

Anyway a single shot of 29'59" is not advisable, even unprecedented.

 

But does anyone know the technical reason related to the FAT? Are some formats faster than others, is that the reason? The taxation reason mentioned before may be the key factor but then it is the total time of multiple shots presumably?

 

All in all I do not see this restriction providing 'less functionality'.

[giordano]

Anyway a single shot of 29'59" is not advisable, even unprecedented.

 

Longer takes are often essential in scientific and surveillance work, jolly handy for documentary (e.g. if you're recording a conference), and used by some art video makers and film producers (see e.g. Russian Ark). Not that I'm suggesting that the M is a suitable camera for such projects.

 

But does anyone know the technical reason related to the FAT? Are some formats faster than others, is that the reason? The taxation reason mentioned before may be the key factor but then it is the total time of multiple shots presumably?

FAT is used because it's simpler to implement than more modern and capable formats (especially if there's no proper operating system), and the nearest there is to a universal disk format. FAT32 (there isn't a FAT64) can handle a maximum file size of 4GB, which depending on quality equates to between minutes and days of shooting: the less-than-30-minute thing is AFAIK an artificial EU line for tax or excise purposes between video cameras as such and still cameras with a video capability.

All in all I do not see this restriction providing 'less functionality'.

That's silly. Of course it provides "less functionality"; it's just that that functionality is of no importance to you.

[SJP]

OK point taken for recording a 45' lecture at a conference, or surveillance, or a whole concert. The functionality indeed depends on what you want to use it for.

 

Still for a large number of cases a single shot of 29' 59" is more than sufficient. My experience is that you often take multiple 1-5' shots and spend extraordinary amounts of time to get all the clips edited together to form a fluent and artistically pleasing whole (including soundtrack, titles etc.). Video (moving pictures) is a tough craft and I fear I am not good enough.

 

My only semi-pro filming involved using super-8 which was 3 minutes maximum IIRC. About 3 weeks shooting and 6 weeks editing by hand with glue and scissors by my friend. Suffering and misery.

 

Total result was a ~ ½ hour film. It was entered at the Dutch Film festival and failed miserably

[georg]

Is it wise to keep an HDSLR (or the M for that matter) running recording video for more than 30min from a heat-management - perspective, anyways? Professional video cameras have quite elaborate cooling system to prevent these issues, not just a few gramms of aluminium-heatsink.

 

They should get the bitrate up, though. Whatever the processor and recording media can handle. 30min @ 4GB are roughly 17MBit/s - that's even less than a regular blu-ray for 1080p. Or at least using the HDMI-port for uncompressed recording.

A tough, little camera with a unique 24x36 sensor without line-skipping will be of great interest, especially for the video-community! Even using it as a crash-cam for professional productions! But 17MBit/s is seriously limiting the output quality. Grading the output will be very difficult. No sharping, low contrast, high-bitrate - that's what these people need (and miss with current HDSLRs).

[JeTexas]

Despite shooting short interviews and other things with a Nikon DSLR, I've had to keep an old Canon video camera to set up for one-hour or two-hour lectures and town hall meetings that have to be recorded and then re-broadcast to various offices.

 

The Canon camcorder writes multiple continuous files to the card to get around the 4GB issue. You can also hack Canon DSLRs to do this as well with Magic Lantern. The time limit is purely a tax issue as mentioned before.

 

I would definitely use the new M for sit-down interviews, but without follow focus it would be a bear to use for lectures and presentations where the speaker is wandering around the stage.

[Rick]

Is it wise to keep an HDSLR (or the M for that matter) running recording video for more than 30min from a heat-management - perspective, anyways? Professional video cameras have quite elaborate cooling system to prevent these issues, not just a few gramms of aluminium-heatsink.

 

They should get the bitrate up, though. Whatever the processor and recording media can handle. 30min @ 4GB are roughly 17MBit/s - that's even less than a regular blu-ray for 1080p. Or at least using the HDMI-port for uncompressed recording.

A tough, little camera with a unique 24x36 sensor without line-skipping will be of great interest, especially for the video-community! Even using it as a crash-cam for professional productions! But 17MBit/s is seriously limiting the output quality. Grading the output will be very difficult. No sharping, low contrast, high-bitrate - that's what these people need (and miss with current HDSLRs).

 

It is actually 40Mbs which is quite good. It may be more by the time it is released.