Flare problems with M9 and/or Leica lenses...

[giodic]

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Hi all....

I wonder if someone have experienced severe flare issues with her/his M9 and/or Elmarit 28 and Summicron 50, like these.......

 

What do you think about?

 

Thank you....

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[01af]

The current Summicron-M 50 mm is notorious for this kind of flare. If you don't like it then switch to either a Summarit-M 50 mm or a Summilux-M 50 mm Asph—both will flare less than the Summicron. Also the old uncoated Elmar 5 cm 1:3.5 is surprisingly resistant to flare; in backlight situations it may lose some contrast but this will happen evenly across the whole frame, without colour cast—so in post-processing, a simple push of global contrast and black point will take care of it.

 

However I never heard about flares being a particular issue with 28 mm lenses. Would you mind telling us which Elmarit 28 mm you are talking about, and which picture was taken with which lens—or is this information secret?

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[giodic]

The current Summicron-M 50 mm is notorious for this kind of flare. If you don't like it then switch to either a Summarit-M 50 mm or a Summilux-M 50 mm Asph—both will flare less than the Summicron. Also the old uncoated Elmar 5 cm 1:3.5 is surprisingly resistant to flare; in backlight situations it may lose some contrast but this will happen evenly across the whole frame, without colour cast—so in post-processing, a simple push of global contrast and black point will take care of it.

 

However I never heard about flares being a particular issue with 28 mm lenses. Would you mind telling us which Elmarit 28 mm you are talking about, and which picture was taken with which lens—or is this information secret?

 

The Elmarit 28 I have is the third series (code id. # 12536) made in Canada, and the related picture is the first (the one with no people)..... while the second is taken with the summicron 50...... (both lens with the hood mounted)...... thank you....

[lct]

Did you use a filter on your lenses?

[Mike Geng]

 

50mm Summicron IV. Never had purple flares and I have been shooting a bunch of stuff with intentional backlight.

[tobey bilek]

My ver 3 28 does not flair like that.

[Hosermage]

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Here's what I got from 90 Elmarit-M (though I intentionally wanted the flare)

 

Here's one from the 50 'Lux ASPH, unintended flare:

[wattsy]

The second photo shows classic 50 Summicron veiling flare. It is surprisingly hard to predict and is thought to be a consequence of insufficient internal baffling.

[pgk]

ALL lenses can be made to flare if used so that light bounces around inside them and the camera. The first photo showing purplish flare is probably due to the camera sensor filter - look at the top and its quite clear that there is a flare free line - and it is probably due to an extreme light source just outside the field of view which the lens images into the camera; I think that the colour is as a result of the light reflecting off the sensor filter and then reflecting back on to it from the lens. I can get this on my 50 'lux asph. easily enough if I try, and my 35 too. The other shows veiling flare and again you can get this with oblique lighting slanting into the lens and causing contrast loss. In such situations I try to use my hand to shield light falling directly onto the lens (from the sun) from outside the field of view. I'm afraid that some flare is somewhat inevitable if you shoot against hard light at such angles - on any lens.

[wattsy]

ALL lenses can be made to flare..... ......The other shows veiling flare and again you can get this with oblique lighting slanting into the lens and causing contrast loss.

 

Yes, but the 50 Summicron is particularly susceptible to this problem. The 75 Summicron is also not immune from centralised veiling glare like this. Olaf is correct that the 50 Summarit and 50 Summilux ASPH are pretty much free of it. I also never came across it when I owned a Noctilux F1.

[pgk]

Yes, but the 50 Summicron is particularly susceptible to this problem. The 75 Summicron is also not immune from centralised veiling glare like this. Olaf is correct that the 50 Summarit and 50 Summilux ASPH are pretty much free of it. I also never came across it when I owned a Noctilux F1.

Yes that's fine, but the OP asked what others thought of it. And like I said, it can occur on any lens and the solution is to reduce the oblique light striking the lens elements - with a hand or similar. I can force all sorts of flare with my 'lux asph if I try hard enough..... The Summarit is the most flare resistant Leica 50mm but changing lenses is an expensive option.

[wattsy]

like I said, it can occur on any lens and the solution is to reduce the oblique light striking the lens elements - with a hand or similar. I can force all sorts of flare with my 'lux asph if I try hard enough..

 

But it doesn't just occur (with the same degree of frequency/ease) with other Leica 50mm lenses. In my experience, it also occurs when you wouldn't normally expect it – that is, not when you have a strong light source either directly or obliquely hitting the lens but often under rather overcast diffuse lighting. IMO it is a problem for this particular lens and the OP should be made aware of it.

[mikebidwell]

For what its worth back in late 2011 and early 2012 I had a lot of problems with my M6 and what was thought to be at the time light leakage. The M6 was returned to Germany and after further investigation by the technicians deemed to be NFF and returned to me. However the problem still occured. We had quite a legthy thread running, the link to which is listed, but in the end the problem seemed to centre around my 50mm Cron lens, and after they carried out some work on it I've not had any further trouble.

 

I've added the link to that thread because it might be of interest in this case.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/film-forum/213093-m6-solve-mystery.html

 

Hope you get things resolved

 

Best wishes

 

Mike

[lct]

As far as flare is concerned, there are different sorts of Summicrons 50 folks. Even the last non-asph version does not render the same if it is a tabbed one or a current version with built-in hood. As for the Summilux 50/1.4 asph, i could not say that it flares less than the pre-asph version. Both of them flare perhaps a bit less than the current non-asph Summicron but the difference is not huge by far. I have no experience with Noctilux or Summarit 50 but if i had to choose a champion amongst my own 50mm lenses, it would be probably the last Elmar 50/2.8.

[giodic]

First I would say thank you to all the people that have reply to this post....

 

At the end of the story, if I'm not wrong, flares for both lenses it's normal in condition like those in my pictures..... and, maybe, most recent lenses are less prone to flares than the older ..... isn't it?

 

Anyway I do agree that in the first picture (Elmarit 28mm), the purple flare is probably due to the double reflection of the light from the sensor surface to the lens glass.... (and it is maybe obvious if you notice the narrow band in the top of the image due to the shadow cast of the hood)....

But, what have very surprising me is the diffuse glow in the picture taken with the Summicron (the second pic), where the flares is probably due only to the hard reflecting chromium-plated surface of the truck's mirror and not to some oblique light from the side.....

[sector99]

A further proof that the flare culprit is the Sun's image falling just off the detector's edge (In your first example above) can be found in the magenta-colored veil.

 

The thin M9 anti-aliasing filter both reflects and refracts the low grazing Sun's rays falling across the sensor at a VERY low angle––causing the familiar magenta coloration.

 

This coloration is common with certain symmetrical wide angle lenses when used with AA filtered sensors. The low sun rays equate to the outer zone, low-incidence-angle wide angle coloration.

 

This flare from the Sun would have occurred with any lens-not just a Summicron (IMO). Position the Sun that close to a sensor and sensor flare will happen.

 

As for the second example, the cause is less clear.

 

Have you cleaned the sensor's surface? That possibility could cause the anti reflection coating on the sensor's surface to perhaps become more reflective––possibly leading to the central flare (In the fire truck crew) we observe.

[giodic]

................

 

This flare from the Sun would have occurred with any lens-not just a Summicron (IMO). Position the Sun that close to a sensor and sensor flare will happen.

 

As for the second example, the cause is less clear.

 

Have you cleaned the sensor's surface? That possibility could cause the anti reflection coating on the sensor's surface to perhaps become more reflective––possibly leading to the central flare (In the fire truck crew) we observe.

 

I do agree, but only in part, about the purple flares occurred with the Elmarit (not the Summicron) because I have, or have had, other lenses (even zoom lenses) from Nikon and Fuji that, in similar conditions, don't show problem like that.....

 

I have purchased my M9 very recently (as a second hand body) from the Leica Store of Rome, where they used the camera as demo, with only 2.300 shutter activations, and I never need to clear the sensor (the same as the Leica crew of the store i think)......

[lct]

Want to see a flare test with Nikon?

Nikon AI 50mm f1.4 - Lens Flare Test on Vimeo

[giodic]

Want to see a flare test with Nikon?

Nikon AI 50mm f1.4 - Lens Flare Test on Vimeo

 

OK..... but this is an AI lens, not a modern lens with a recent kind of coatings..... and, maybe, this is my problem (with the Leica lenses I own).....

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[giodic]

The second photo shows classic 50 Summicron veiling flare. It is surprisingly hard to predict and is thought to be a consequence of insufficient internal baffling.

 

Did you encountered the same issue and can you show me some example picture?

Thanks.....