dwbell Posted October 19, 2012 Share #1 Posted October 19, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Maybe this has been covered already? Why wouldn't Leica offer a Monochrom M (new one) in the future? Is there a technical reason that prohibits it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 19, 2012 Posted October 19, 2012 Hi dwbell, Take a look here Future Monochrom M?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pop Posted October 19, 2012 Share #2 Posted October 19, 2012 That's as official as it can get: Question: Will the M-Monochrom remain part of the M-System for the foreseeable future? Stefan Daniel: We want to keep the series of that type. The Monochrom is very successful and we can imagine that there might be a Monochrom variant of the new model. The camera is addictive. Alfred Schopf: We are shipping the camera only since August. Therefore, there is not much experience with the camera “in the wild”. The reactions of those who actually held one ranged from euphoric to enthusiastic. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted October 19, 2012 Thanks pop, concise reply, much appreciated. Will probably hold out for the M(new)M then I think. I yearn for the faster processor and response (and shutter sound) of the new M (assuming comparable or better IQ) but I do see the beauty of the MM. However, could I handle the slow clunky old M technology of the MM side by side with the snappy new M in the bag? Probably not to be honest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcnarf Posted October 19, 2012 Share #4 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Maybe a future M where, à la Ricoh, sensors could be interchanged according to whether you wanted to shot color or not?m Orr maybe in the future there could be a way either to place a.separate within-camera. RGB-color filter over the sensor or to remove it in accordance with one's momentary photographic choice? Edited October 19, 2012 by kcnarf To add a sentence Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted October 19, 2012 Maybe a future M where, à la Ricoh, sensors could be interchanged according to whether you wanted to shot color or not? "A little closer to the box please kcnarf!" Would be nice huh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 19, 2012 Share #6 Posted October 19, 2012 Why wouldn't Leica offer a Monochrom M (new one) in the future? Of course they could, but the M Monochrom has just begun to reach the market. For the foreseeable future it will be the M Monochrom. If there continues to be enough demand for a monochrome M and customers show interest in a CMOS version with live view, it could be succeeded by a monochrome version of the new M. Photokina 2014 maybe? This is entirely speculative of course, given that the product cycle of the M Monochrom has just begun and the new M isn’t even finished. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted October 19, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Of course they could, but the M Monochrom has just begun to reach the market. For the foreseeable future it will be the M Monochrom. If there continues to be enough demand for a monochrome M and customers show interest in a CMOS version with live view, it could be succeeded by a monochrome version of the new M. Photokina 2014 maybe? This is entirely speculative of course, given that the product cycle of the M Monochrom has just begun and the new M isn’t even finished. Thanks Michael, I wasn't sure if there was a technical consideration to it's possibility with the new CMOS sensor etc. Of course the MM is indeed just shipping essentially, but how long before users who have both M and MM start bemoaning the slowness etc of the MM compared to the M and request (as I am kind of doing already) a M(new)Monochrom? Just imagining shooting with an M and an MM in your bag. You shoot say 30 shots with the M with it's snappy response, big screen etc, then pull out the MM - oh dear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 19, 2012 Share #8 Posted October 19, 2012 For what little its worth, I'd be fairly confident that when the new M is established in the market and the initial sales peak has declined a bit, maybe by late 2013, probably early 2014 if its well received, a new MM will emerge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted October 19, 2012 I tend to agree Peter. Although first out will likely be the "P" version of the M, whatever that will be called? You know, no red dot, and 2000 EURO premium..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted October 19, 2012 Share #10 Posted October 19, 2012 Of course the MM is indeed just shipping essentially, but how long before users who have both M and MM start bemoaning the slowness etc of the MM compared to the M and request (as I am kind of doing already) a M(new)Monochrom? We will see. The market for a monochrome M is only a small part of the already small rangefinder market; that’s why it took six years from the initial concept to actually building the camera. The M Monochrom still needs to prove the viability of this concept (marketing-wise, not technologically). If it does, anything may happen. But I don’t think Leica is in a great hurry. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted October 19, 2012 We will see. The market for a monochrome M is only a small part of the already small rangefinder market; that’s why it took six years from the initial concept to actually building the camera. The M Monochrom still needs to prove the viability of this concept (marketing-wise, not technologically). If it does, anything may happen. But I don’t think Leica is in a great hurry. Are they ever? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 19, 2012 Share #12 Posted October 19, 2012 Michael, I think the existence of the Monochrom is important to Leica for reasons that are not directly related to the revenue it produces. Its a flagship, exclusive model that has no equivalent, and thus has a 'halo" effect for the rest of the brand. It helps reinforce the notion that Leica is unique and not just a Canon/Nikon competitor. Once the demand for the new M subsides and the no-red-dot version has done its job, its probable that a new Monochrome will be just what's needed to keep things moving along. From a technical point of view though, its interesting to speculate as to the possible advantages/disadvantages that a 24mp CMOS monochrome sensor might have over the current Mono one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 20, 2012 Share #13 Posted October 20, 2012 Hmmm - well, I think it's absolutely possible. But Leica product cycles seem to be at least 3 years, this is a niche within a niche so I would be incredibly surprised to see such a camera before 2015. If you think you want a Monochrom camera - it's here, now, and it's fabulous - don't wait for three years just in case there's a better one (probably to be launched just before the replacement M, when there will be equally good reasons for waiting). It's not a machine gun - I have to say that I was never disturbed by the 'old clunky M' when shooting with the Monochrom. It seems odd to wait for three years for a better shutter sound and a faster processor! 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share #14 Posted October 20, 2012 Thanks all, thanks Jono. Jono you're right, of course. My predicted (and yes, petty) annoyance comes from shooting with the 5DII for long and the M9 together. Then you *really* notice how slow and clunky the 9 is. If the new M is snappy I'd have that same "bleh" moment again! And no, it's not that I can't understand to slow down and shoot more deliberate "rangefinder" photography, it's the more haptic nature of a product, or tool. It's the same thing I have between shooting with the steel grey M9's covering and the M9-P's. After using the P I have trouble adjusting to the slippery grey 9 with it's softer shutter dial indentations and loose scroll wheel. Am I the only one who "feels" their cameras like this? I doubt it. A big part of my decision to keep and use extensively a camera is exactly this kind of thing. How it feels to work with. Anyway, I'm 6th on the list for the MM at my preferred dealer. So the new M Monochrom will likely be out before I get it anyway! Thanks agai all, good input. Much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted October 20, 2012 Share #15 Posted October 20, 2012 Thanks all, thanks Jono. Jono you're right, of course. My predicted (and yes, petty) annoyance comes from shooting with the 5DII for long and the M9 together. Then you *really* notice how slow and clunky the 9 is. If the new M is snappy I'd have that same "bleh" moment again! And no, it's not that I can't understand to slow down and shoot more deliberate "rangefinder" photography, it's the more haptic nature of a product, or tool. It's the same thing I have between shooting with the steel grey M9's covering and the M9-P's. After using the P I have trouble adjusting to the slippery grey 9 with it's softer shutter dial indentations and loose scroll wheel. Am I the only one who "feels" their cameras like this? I doubt it. A big part of my decision to keep and use extensively a camera is exactly this kind of thing. How it feels to work with.. No no no no no - me too - I was't suggesting that these things didn't matter - just that it I felt it didn't matter a three year wait! (seems that you don't either!). I'm sure the new M won't be perfect either . . . . at least, I"m sure it won't be perfect as a full frame mirrorless camera . . . but I think it's splendid that they really seem to have listened to what everyone said, and I'm beginning to feel that it might indeed be the perfect rangefinder camera. Anyway, I'm 6th on the list for the MM at my preferred dealer. So the new M Monochrom will likely be out before I get it anyway! Thanks agai all, good input. Much appreciated. I'm currently testing my feelings of life without an MM - and I'm not certain that I'm going to get one either, but I've been lucky enough to have a 6 months trial period in which to decide. But then I'm a colour kind of a guy - lots of the time at least. all the best 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share #16 Posted October 21, 2012 Thanks Jono. I'll wait and see what the Leica delivery time Gods decide my fate will be. Absolves me of decision responsibility! Love your work, and continually impressed with your use of 75mm for street without loosing the feeling of "being there" that a 50 or 35 normally prescribes. The result I feel is subtly different yet engaging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted October 21, 2012 Share #17 Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) The future Monochrom M is here. I own one and it has given my travels and photo outings a spirit I have not had for 40 years. This whole discussion reminds me of computer discussions where people want to wait for the next latest and greatest whatever only to find that when that item comes out, they think they should now wait for the next, next latest and greatest for reasons xyz. If you are into Leica and can afford one, get the MM now. Do you sometimes travel great distances to mainly shoot during the golden hours of the day in color? And then spend the rest of the day not doing much except looking for sunset locations, etc? Well, the M has gotten me photographing during the entire day and maximizing my travel time instead of waiting for open shade for marvelous color shot. Then there is the after sunset time of day where to me the high ISO capabilities of the MM always bring up new opportunities in the night. I gave up hand holding my M9 in those situations and I refuse to carry some big ol' SLR around so as to attract attention to my nocturnal photo adventures. Look at Photokina for example--All shot at ISO 5000. The last one is shown because it is a facial OOF (where the hand shows he is working on his notebook) with a Nocti, but only added here in order to indicate just how very DARK it was in there. I just could not focus, especially with that lens that night. The other three are taken with a 35/1.4 FLE which was a better choice of lens in this environment. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! A relaxed Dr. Kaufmann while introducing the new M. Our ever-working Overgaard even before the presentation kicked off. Edited October 21, 2012 by algrove 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! A relaxed Dr. Kaufmann while introducing the new M. Our ever-working Overgaard even before the presentation kicked off. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/190421-future-monochrom-m/?do=findComment&comment=2146793'>More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted October 21, 2012 Valid points and wise counsel. Thanks algrove. Nice images too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 22, 2012 Share #19 Posted October 22, 2012 I agree, if I wanted a monochrome camera (still not decided) I certainly wouldn't wait years for a NewMM when the current one seems so attractive and has the virtue of actually existing. I thought, however, that this thread was just a bit of harmless speculation about the possibility/probability of the M begetting a new Monochrom version. And I do think its quite a high probability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted October 22, 2012 Share #20 Posted October 22, 2012 Personally I think there won't be a "new MM" based on the new M. The MM is such a niche camera that I assume that it is not worth it for Leica to put lots of R&D into a MM for each generation of M body. I assume that the next "MM" version will be based on the next M (not the newest one but the Typ 250 or whatever they are going to call it in 3 years time). Well, those are my assumptions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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