chris_tribble Posted October 14, 2012 Share #1 Posted October 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) An incidental shot around home this afternoon - and then I noticed this very strange patterning. Not particularly noticeable until you go in at 100%, but then it really shows. It looks a bit like some sort of condensation effect? It also shows if you zoom in on the image directly on camera. Does anyone have any thoughts? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/190122-now-this-i-havent-seen-before/?do=findComment&comment=2141340'>More sharing options...
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wlaidlaw Posted October 14, 2012 Share #2 Posted October 14, 2012 Chris, I am afraid this looks very similar to an issue I had on my M9 about 8 months ago. I sent it to Solms and they said the sensor needed to be changed, which they did FOC, even though the camera was 4 months out of warranty. If you look at the sensor with a magnifying sensor loupe, you may see something looking like whorls between the cover glass and sensor. I also had one or two blotches, which would not clean off as again they seemed to be under the cover glass. Wilson PS I had been using the M9 in a very high humidity area in the West Indies a couple of weeks prior to the issue appearing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted October 14, 2012 Update - I've just checked the sensor and it appears to have a honeycomb pattern right across the surface. I've tried cleaning with Visible Dust Sensor Swab, but this has no effect. I've not got a second camera with me to take a photo of this, but it would seem that this isn't so much as a cracked cover glass issue as some sort of disintegration of one of the sensor's surfaces or substrates (if that's the right word). Looks like an urgent email to Andrea at Leica, Solms. I'll post a picture of what's going on as soon as I can. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 14, 2012 Author Share #4 Posted October 14, 2012 Wilson - many thanks for the confirmation - this is my original 9/9/09 M9 - so well out of warranty, so I hope they'll replace. It's clearly a fault. re shooting conditions, I got back from Mexico about 3 weeks ago, and can't see any of these marks on my archive from there. It seems to have started recently - and isn't present on my second body in shots taken in the last week or so. What a drag... though at least we should be re-assured that the sensor will be available for some time as it's the same one they're using in the M-E... a small silver lining Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 14, 2012 Share #5 Posted October 14, 2012 That is the spookiest thing I've ever seen! To take the optimistic view, you could consider it your own, perfectly unique watermark. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 14, 2012 Share #6 Posted October 14, 2012 Chris, High humidity in Mexico? That is what I put mine down to. My fault appeared 2 to 3 weeks later. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Taylor Posted October 14, 2012 Share #7 Posted October 14, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wilson - many thanks for the confirmation - this is my original 9/9/09 M9 - so well out of warranty, so I hope they'll replace. It's clearly a fault. re shooting conditions, I got back from Mexico about 3 weeks ago, and can't see any of these marks on my archive from there. It seems to have started recently - and isn't present on my second body in shots taken in the last week or so. What a drag... though at least we should be re-assured that the sensor will be available for some time as it's the same one they're using in the M-E... a small silver lining Chris I had my M9 with a crack and sent it in to Jersey and although it was out of warrantee no charge for replacing . Hank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted October 14, 2012 Share #8 Posted October 14, 2012 My suspicion is a fungal growth between the cover glass and the sensor, triggered by heat and damp. Pico's rejig of the image looks just like I remember fungal growths looking, when I did biochemistry at university. I hope this is not going to turn out to be yet another M digital horror story, after the coffee stains, irreplaceable failing LCD screens and cracked sensor cover glasses. If it is, I hope Kodak bought plenty of product liability insurance. Of course they may say it is an installation issue. Wilson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 14, 2012 Share #9 Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) My guess: chemical residual from original manufacturing or adhesive fluid break-down. The forms are too regular to be fungus which tends to look more organic, for lack of a better word. It might be interesting if Chris could take an out-of-focus picture of a white sheet of paper in daylight. (Daylight to get higher frequency light source.) Then post the raw file somewhere. I can host it. Edited October 14, 2012 by pico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted October 15, 2012 Share #10 Posted October 15, 2012 chemical residue or fungal, it's hard to determine but i'm very interested to find out...i also suspect it might be glue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted October 15, 2012 Share #11 Posted October 15, 2012 (edited) Does not look at all like fungus... not even slightly (unless it is a new breed of post analogue fungus). Hope you arrive at a low cost solution. Edited October 15, 2012 by Studio58 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted October 15, 2012 Share #12 Posted October 15, 2012 Looks to me a bit like a distorted grid of some kind of textile, i.e. woven fibers of some kind, perhaps some padding or wrapping which stuck to one of the components. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted October 15, 2012 I've tried to see the clearest way of showing this (short of a good shot of the sensor - which I can't do for the moment as I've got a crappy camera on my phone and no other camera here). Ignore the dust on the sensor - this has nothing to do with the problem! Shooting against the sky seems best. I've put two DNGs on my Dropbox: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/862415/Sensor/L1001270.dng (IN FOCUS) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/862415/Sensor/L1001271.dng (DEFOCUSED) The pattern of lines is visible in these screen resolution images below. On direct examination, the sensor looks as if there's a "crazy-paving" pattern over about 2/3rds of the surface, and this definitely seems to be BELOW the top level of glass. This pattern is easily seen in the jpegs. It looks very bright and sharp when observed under a slanting light - so I don't think it's fungus. More of a crystalline structure which, to me, indicates some kind of fracturing. re the conditions, NOT high particularly high humidity - we were in Tepoztlan which is at 5500 feet, and though there was heavy rain, it was nothing like Bangladesh earlier this year (where I also had both M9 bodies...). Speaking to Solms this morning, and will update when I have more news. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/190122-now-this-i-havent-seen-before/?do=findComment&comment=2141796'>More sharing options...
pico Posted October 15, 2012 Share #14 Posted October 15, 2012 Here is a slightly more clear rendering. Note how they are all about the same length. . 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share #15 Posted October 15, 2012 and this is really clear same sky shot, clarity slider at 100 and contrast at 100 converted to B&W. You can see the pattern very clearly. Again - ignore the dust. This isn't the problem. This is NOT the result of any physical pressure on the sensor - the only cleaning I normally do is with a blower + Arctic Butterfly. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/190122-now-this-i-havent-seen-before/?do=findComment&comment=2141801'>More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share #16 Posted October 15, 2012 Bad news / Good news. I've just spoken to Leica in Solms (Andrea's away, but a colleague of hers was there, and very helpful - also her English was a great deal better than my German). BAD news: she confirms that it's a substrate that has disintegrated - very rare, but it has happened. GOOD news: They will replace the sensor. Thanks for support and comment. I don't think there is anything we can do to prevent this - but from my perspective it's good that the M-E is still using the M9 sensor, as this extends the availability of parts! I'll update on the final outcome. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted October 15, 2012 Share #17 Posted October 15, 2012 Bad news / Good news. I've just spoken to Leica in Solms (Andrea's away, but a colleague of hers was there, and very helpful - also her English was a great deal better than my German). BAD news: she confirms that it's a substrate that has disintegrated - very rare, but it has happened. GOOD news: They will replace the sensor. Thanks for support and comment. I don't think there is anything we can do to prevent this - but from my perspective it's good that the M-E is still using the M9 sensor, as this extends the availability of parts! I'll update on the final outcome. Makes a lot of sense. I processed your second DNG file a little bit. Here goes: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/190122-now-this-i-havent-seen-before/?do=findComment&comment=2141826'>More sharing options...
wattsy Posted October 15, 2012 Share #18 Posted October 15, 2012 Similar (though not the same) to this one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share #19 Posted October 15, 2012 Looks very similar - going through the thread, the OP doesn't seem to post if he got a solution. I have the impression that this is very rare. My M9 really was a 9/9/09 purchase, so it's certainly one of the early batch. I HOPE that this problem has been identified and fixed for later iterations of the M9's sensor. It's certainly not in Leica's interest to have to keep on fixing FOC. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share #20 Posted October 15, 2012 Borrowed my wife's little Lumix and got a shot of the sensor before sending off to Solms. Below. Not a great image, bit it gives an idea of what the issue was. re progress, Leica Mayfair have been very helpful and loaned me an M9 while the mine's being sorted. That you can't complain about! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/190122-now-this-i-havent-seen-before/?do=findComment&comment=2142204'>More sharing options...
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