Some questions about the Noctilux f1

[philipus]

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I would like to know what people think about the previous (thus f1) Noctilux. I think it was IWC who not long ago noticed that it has begun to rise in price.

 

Why is this happening and is it happening to all three versions or just the latest one with the telescoping hood?

 

I'm also curious about the f1's performance when compared with the 50 Summilux Asph. I realise the f1 is an older design but is anyone still using it actively or have they sold it in favour of the 0.95 (a lens which I would not consider myself).

 

I have read in older threads that the f1 has (or perhaps that should read "at the time had") good flare performance. There seem to have been rumours of changed coatings at some point - did that improve flare resistance such that earlier versions are difficult to use?

 

Looking forward to your views

Cheers

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[IWC Doppel]

Me too

[a.noctilux]

I use one of first style, 58mm filter. With a screw-in short hood to protect the front lens, never with a filter, when possible. The best filter will destroy it's flare control.

 

Noctilux 1.0 is one of the best flare resistant lens I use. Very nice contre-jour, even with light source in the field.

Maybe along with my Summilux-M 75mm.

With these twin, black is black.

So colors (other than black of course) seem very pure.

 

Arnaud

[Jager]

If the price is rising, I'd suggest it is because the f1 Noctilux is no longer made and because it has a remarkable, unique signature. I love mine. It is my go-to glass at night and indoors and anywhere else where light is at a premium. I occasionally use it in broad daylight with a 6-stop ND filter just so I can grab that special fingerprint it offers.

 

It does indeed have remarkable flare resistance. You can point it at a bright point-light source and the Noctilux shepherds all those errant photons back to where they ought to be.

 

I would not compare it to the Summilux 50 ASPH. The Summilux is, at least until the arrival of the new APO 50 Summicron, the very best all-around 50 prime lens from any maker. Which is to say, it is a conventional lens with a lovely but not particularly unique signature, done better than anyone else has ever managed.

 

If you want the very best 50 prime in the world, something you can use in virtually every circumstance, get the 50 Summilux. If you want something that is not nearly as well-rounded, but that brings a special magic that no other lens in the world can give, get the old Noctilux.

 

Or get both... ;-)

[Tonki-M]

the f1 Noc has its very specific look especially the bokeh. the f0.95 is newer, thus more modern in its look, it is a faster and better summilux(though marginally according to Erwin Puts) same with its way of rendering background. the f1 is all about the swirly bokeh! its performance @f1 is not comparable to the new Noc or even Summilux @1.4 concerning contrast and sharpness, but its the look and character of this Noc f1 @f1 that makes it special in its own right.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Tonki-M

[MarkP]

I would recommend reading this thread on the 1.0/50 Noctilux (including my thoughts and sample photographs in post #8).

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/252840-50mm-noctilux-f1-0-a.html

 

The 1.0/50 Noctilux E60 is an extraordinary lens. I have no interest the 0.95/50 Noctilux. To me it's a faster, heavier, larger, and more expensive 1.4/50 Summilux FLE (which I do own) with probably identical image qualities within the same f-stop range.

 

It's the beautiful signature of the older Noctilux that makes it so special, even when stopped down which is how I often use it. I rarely shoot it wide open as I'm not into razor-thin depth-of -field, and prefer more gentle transition to out-of-focus areas.

 

If you can find and afford this lens it's well worth owning.

[philipus]

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Thanks very much Mark, and for the link to that thread.

 

What would be a reasonable price for one?

[MarkP]

Thanks very much Mark, and for the link to that thread.

 

What would be a reasonable price for one?

 

I can't help you with that.

 

Mine is a V4 on permanent loan from a close friend who doesn't want it back.. Check with your friends:D

[Messsucherkamera]

It's not just the Noctilux f/1.0 lenses that are going up in price - most if not all past versions of M lenses are doing the same.

 

Leica is not producing enough new M lenses to satisfy the demands of the market. Many buyers are therefore going after out of production lenses (a limited resource) on the used market, causing prices to increase.

 

It seems that Leica's current efforts are focused on meeting the demand for the digital M series as well as X and S series products. They don't have the manpower or the facilities to build all products simultaneously at equal production levels (so I have read). Apparently M lens production has taken a back seat for the time being.

 

Hopefully that will change before long.

Edited October 17, 2012 by Messsucherkamera

[jaques]

so you guess that if Leica catches up with demand- the prices for vintage lenses will begin to drop? I am genuinely curious.

 

in my opinion it's a bit of a nature/nurture argument- the answer seems more complex- I would guess a lot of the used price is associated with lens collecting, and with people who actually want vintage glass- not new glass. I suspect this is a large percentage of the market. Also there is another segment who would love new lenses: but cannot afford them. For them 6.5 K for an f1 noctilux is possible 11k for 0.95 is not, etc.

 

I have dozens of leica lenses.... but have never purchased a new one- or even looked into the prospect much.

 

It seems that Leica has increased lens production in recent times and will further increase them- the backlog is being fulfilled- lenses are appearing on shelves. I wonder if there will be another great surge in demand when the M hits the shelves and if Leica's new production facilities will be able to accommodate that or not. My guess is they will- and that lens production is going to double or more over the next 18 months.

[Messsucherkamera]

so you guess that if Leica catches up with demand- the prices for vintage lenses will begin to drop? I am genuinely curious.

 

in my opinion it's a bit of a nature/nurture argument- the answer seems more complex- I would guess a lot of the used price is associated with lens collecting, and with people who actually want vintage glass- not new glass. I suspect this is a large percentage of the market. Also there is another segment who would love new lenses: but cannot afford them. For them 6.5 K for an f1 noctilux is possible 11k for 0.95 is not, etc.

 

I have dozens of leica lenses.... but have never purchased a new one- or even looked into the prospect much.

 

It seems that Leica has increased lens production in recent times and will further increase them- the backlog is being fulfilled- lenses are appearing on shelves. I wonder if there will be another great surge in demand when the M hits the shelves and if Leica's new production facilities will be able to accommodate that or not. My guess is they will- and that lens production is going to double or more over the next 18 months.

After thinking about your comments, it seems likely that the prices of used lenses will not drop - or if they do, it will be a miniscule drop in price. Supply and demand seem to have less of an effect on Leica cameras and lenses than on many commodities. And as you point out, vintage lens prices are affected by a number of complex variables.

 

Real estate investors say "They aren't making any more land." The same is true of vintage Leica lenses and cameras.

 

I hope lens production does double. I am out of the new lens market however. Economic considerations are a ruthless and demanding mistress. I'm glad I bought my new M lenses when I did and had the good sense to hangon to them.

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

Don't forget (Right Wing commrentators not withstanding): The state of the economy Worldwide (Leica is a Worldwide commodity) is getting bettter.

 

This means: More $'s, Euros, Yen, Yuan, etc chasing after the same or even a growing total # of cameras, lenses, etc. Higher Leitz/Leica prices are 1 of the outcomes of an improving World Economy.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[Messsucherkamera]

Cheap shot duly noted.

 

Enjoy your new home on the ignore list.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Messsucherkamera