Jerren Posted October 10, 2012 Share #1 Posted October 10, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I went out with my newly acquired almost flawless M2 today along with my sekonic light meter. I basically just walked around taking different meter readings as the light changed. I can see how if I consistently shoot the same speed film, I could get better at guessing the exposure. I'm familiar with sunny 16 too but my estimates were off a bit compared to what my light meter said was the proper exposure. So I was just curious how long did it take for you all who shoot without meters to get consistently good results? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 10, 2012 Posted October 10, 2012 Hi Jerren, Take a look here How long did it take to guess exposures?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
too old to care Posted October 10, 2012 Share #2 Posted October 10, 2012 Hard to say, my first camera did not have a light meter (Argus C3). I used that camera for at least ten years before I got one that did have a meter (Petri Racer). At the time I shop mostly slide film and used the little sheet that came with the film. I know this is not an answer to your question, but I think many of here started much the same. That said, the more you shoot the easier it will get. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym911 Posted October 10, 2012 Share #3 Posted October 10, 2012 for me about 10 years.... I still screw up about half of my exposures indoors...outdoors I am reasonably ok Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 10, 2012 Share #4 Posted October 10, 2012 When I had my first proper film camera as a kid I would generally use the exposure guide that came printed inside the box of film, which is basically the sunny 16 rule. It was easy to remember the guide after a while so I don't think it took me too long to guess exposure. The 'problem' with starting out with an automatic camera (as pretty much everyone does now) is the fact that one doesn't need to think about exposure. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted October 10, 2012 Share #5 Posted October 10, 2012 About ten years, still making mistakes now and then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted October 11, 2012 Share #6 Posted October 11, 2012 I think the not so secret secret as was noted above is to shot a lot with one film. After a while you will just know the base f stop for given light. The speed then will just change with the iso. Like any craft it takes time but it is rewarding to shoot and then wait to see how it came out. Upside of not being a pro or press photog in this day Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted October 11, 2012 Share #7 Posted October 11, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Your Sekonic lightmeter and your eyes work differently in determining light levels. The Sekonic has no variable iris that reacts toi light and closes the iris whereas your eye does, therefore you cannot estimate exposure becuase your eye is a non-linear device in determining brightness. Other than amatures, I know of no Professionals that I worked with that did not use whatever metering device was available before AUTO Exposure and after that did not view what the device was telling the camera. My M7's ,M6 and Nikon's all have electronic exposure and for the M7 and Nikon Fm3a, the shutter is controlled electronically, I do carry a Gossen as a backup.-Dick 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted October 11, 2012 Share #8 Posted October 11, 2012 I think the not so secret secret as was noted above is to shot a lot with one film. After a while you will just know the base f stop for given light. The speed then will just change with the iso. Like any craft it takes time but it is rewarding to shoot and then wait to see how it came out. Upside of not being a pro or press photog in this day And don't go back and forth between a metered camera and an unmetered one. Sunny 16 for outside stuff, at least down here in Florida, is very straight forward. For inside stuff, just use a hand held meter. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 11, 2012 Share #9 Posted October 11, 2012 I think 'guess is an unfortunate word in this context because experience is not guesswork. But Sunny 16 works, as does using a meter for a time then leaving it at home (failure to get it right concentrates the mind!), but the key thing above all is to shoot lots of film, and only that way can estimating the exposure without a meter become second nature. But there are no prizes given for going meterless, and it shouldn't be an aspiration high on any list. There are the downsides, especially if you are new to film. You might want to experiment and some film and developer combinations require a consistently accurate exposure, and a meter is the datumn point if you come across problems like the shutter is faulty, hard to prove quickly if you 'guess' the exposure. And then the upsides are that you know for sure you got the right exposure so can concentrate on the next picture, and a meter can be a creative tool helping improve the image by placing tones in importance, very useful in nailing skin tones etc. Steve 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 11, 2012 Share #10 Posted October 11, 2012 Hello Jerren, Welcome to the Forum. Why would any 1 want to make exposures w/o a meter? Not using a meter is no different than covering over the aperture #'s on a lens barrel & guessing the clicks or covering the shutter speeds engraved on a shutter speed dial & guessing where the shutter should be set. Enjoy your M2. Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 11, 2012 Share #11 Posted October 11, 2012 Why would any 1 want to make exposures w/o a meter? ...because it is enjoyable. It is challenging. When you get it right, YOU have got it right. When you get it wrong you only have yourself to blame. Good advice here already; use Sunny-16, adapted to your latitude (it is nearer Sunny-12 in Britain). Use one film stock. Use one camera. Practice. What it is not is a "guess". Your eye and brain work together to estimate based upon past experience. I do it all the time with my M2 and my II. Did I mention practice? Regards, Bill 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted October 12, 2012 Share #12 Posted October 12, 2012 +1! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerren Posted October 12, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted October 12, 2012 (edited) Thanks everyone for the input! Guessing is definitely the wrong word to use here. I should have said estimate. I even said it once in my original post. I suppose my desire to be able to accurately estimate exposures came from some videos/websites/podcasts i've been watching/reading/listening to recently. Someone mentioned that HCB was able to estimate exposures without a light meter. If he did this consistently or not is another story but I just heard that he had the talent to do this. A online camera review presenter named Kai Wong also possesses the ability to estimate exposures as well with great results. Thanks again everyone! I will certainly keep practicing as much as I can. Edited October 12, 2012 by Jerren Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted October 15, 2012 Share #14 Posted October 15, 2012 its like that old joke about the young man who asks an old timer on a street corner in NYC "how do you get to Carnegie Hall?". the old timer answers . . . . "Practice" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lincoln_m Posted October 15, 2012 Share #15 Posted October 15, 2012 For B&W film like TMAX 100 or 400 in my M2 I also bracket my shots as they tend not to be of people but buildings/landscapes so I have time to bracket +/- 0.5 stop from my estimate. People say B&W film has great latitude but I notice that only 1 of the 3 bracket shots looks correct. Yes you can get something out of the other 2 but I'm lucky if one was good. Another tip, take notes of each shots exposure and motif so you can find it after your processing as the image numbers are usually out of sync with the camera's . Regards, Lincoln Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 16, 2012 Share #16 Posted October 16, 2012 The question presumes that those who respond actually achieve results you would find satisfactory. In my experience, the judgement of those who use a light meter and those that do not are pretty much the same in terms of outcomes - the median of competence, or incompetence remains the same. Whether you find it competent or not depends upon how your own standards, or lack thereof. . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Messsucherkamera Posted October 16, 2012 Share #17 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) And don't go back and forth between a metered camera and an unmetered one. Sunny 16 for outside stuff, at least down here in Florida, is very straight forward. For inside stuff, just use a hand held meter. Sometimes Sunny 16 can be anywhere from Sunny 16.3 to 16.6, according to my Sekonic L-508 meter (which is not in need of calibration). Not so much of an issue when shooting Tri-X but it is an issue with E6 film. Edited October 16, 2012 by Messsucherkamera Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted October 16, 2012 Share #18 Posted October 16, 2012 (edited) Just starting my professional career, I remember a conversation I had, probably in 1996, (pre-digital), with a fellow photog who apparently was a walking light meter. He could walk into a room and tell you a great starting point for what the exposure would be, and 95% of the time he was dead on. ISO 800 (FujiPress) 30th at f2. BAM. He would walk outside in semi-overcast, it was ISO 200 1000th at 4. It was pretty uncanny. I surely didn't possess that ability, and depended heavily on the N90s or F5 bodies totally reliable matrix metering, or on my handheld Sekonic meter. I knew in the back of my mind I wanted to be able to do that, decipher the light level without the camera, and after time it just sort of happened. I was practicing without knowing it. Using digital Nikons D1, D2, and D3 and the instant feedback they provide was very helpful, but It took me the use of meterless (M2 and then M3) camera to even re-discover that I had developed that skill of relatively accurate estimation for myself after about 15 years of professional photography. With color slide film, I still prefer to start with a handheld reading if it's all the same. Edited October 16, 2012 by Jaybob Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted October 19, 2012 Share #19 Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) It is nice when one manages to get a proper exposure without a meter. There's a slight sense of satisfaction, I find. However, I have never seen this to be a main purpose of my photography but rather something I sometimes have to accept due to the equipment I use. With my Leica II I never bring a meter and happily accept that some shots, particularly indoor or in darker surroundings, may come out bad. I am generally bad at estimating exposures then. I often take one or two extra photos just in case. The smoker picture below is part of a roll with quite a few poorly exposed photos. I had to shoot at the II's lowest shutter speed almost constantly that evening and that was often not enough. But also daytime can be tricky when there are big contrasts between the main subject and surrounding areas. For instance in the pushing granny photo I would have wanted a slightly better exposed foreground. The one below that turned out better, I think, because the surrounding buildings are more visible. Smoker in bar | Flickr Leica II - Summilux 50 pre-asph LTM Pushing granny again | Flickr Leica M3 - Summilux 50 pre-asph LTM Alone in the sun | Flickr Leica M3 - Summilux 50 pre-asph LTM Edited October 19, 2012 by philipus Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinnfell Posted October 19, 2012 Share #20 Posted October 19, 2012 I don´t know how long it took me, but I now find (after 10 years of professional work) that I can estimate my exposures pretty well. "Pretty well" being within a stop or so of final exposure. Raw only of course. (I no longer shoot film). For example, if its sunny, Ill use 1/500 at f8 on iso160. That is bang on almost every time *with my lightroom settings*. Indoors, 1/60, f2 and Iso 400 will usually do it. I tend to prefer underexposure in sunlight and a slight overexposure in yellow indoorlight. That said, If I have the time I will shoot several test shots and use the histograms to pick the best exposure. I try to shoot in such a way that it needs a minimum of processing afterwards. In my opinion, although Photoshop and Lightroom provides "medicine" for almost any camera mistake or lens defect, I always try as far as possible to avoid a sick patient in the first place. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.