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Guest guy_mancuso

Testing the New WATE

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I can tell already it is going to work..Mark are you leaving The IR filter in it's mount or removing it and just use the glass only. From your drawing it looks like glass only and what size did you come up with

 

Guy, yes, I'm using the glass only, cut out of the filter. You can see from the drawing that the front thread of the adapter sets the maximum diameter and we're still looking at whether we can squeeze the glass from a 52mm filter in there or whether we have to drop to the glass out of a 49mm filter.

 

Generally, the glass is about 3 - 3.5mm smaller in diameter than the nominal filter diameter, so that the glass out of a B+W 52mm filter is 48.5mm.

 

The smaller the filter, the greater the chance of vignetting which is also the reason for putting it as close as possible to the front of the lens.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Great I have a 52 right here doing nothing. LOL Mark this is a good design and makes all the sense in the world . Your not touching the lens in all of this , it is basically a outside adapter to the system. leica could make this and put the filter in and sell it for 150 each. You should send this to Stefan

 

Mark seriously you should ask them to make 10 of them for you and that will make the cost cheaper and we certainly have 10 folks willing to pay the freight on it. Or better yet tell them to make 10 and we will guarntee the cost among us. i would easily throw 100.00 to 150 in for it. These are nice folks i had them custom make a leica r mount for my Olyumpus 24 shift lens and that was 450 US

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Guest guy_mancuso

Just playing around with a couple files and this lens has some mojo going on. very sharp indeed.

 

pardon the image

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I am indeed, it's in the queue at a local engineering company to make it.

I'm also interested if you're satisfied with it when it comes in. Count me in with Guy's 10 people if you want.

 

Mark--My impression was that at one time you were planning for an adapter only, allowing the filter to be screwed onto the front. Am I wrong?

 

Just an opinion: Since the prototype isn't yet done, might you have decided earlier than necessary to remove the glass from the filter mount to mount it to your adapter?

 

My reasoning: Yes, it must be kept as close as practical to the front surface. But if you mount a filter to the front of the adapter and the filter gets scratched, you can always just replace the filter. Gluing or pressure-fitting the filter glass in place offers the possibility of mis-alignment (non-parallelism with the sensor) which might reduce the lens's performance. Using a separate filter also allows for later use of the filter on another lens if necessary.

 

Straighten me out please.

 

Thanks!

 

--HC

 

BTW--the question doesn't mean to remove me from the "I'll take one" list: Keep my name there!

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HC, it all depends on whether you want to keep the hood. It would be quite possible to just have an adapter ring similar to Leica's which presents a normal 52mm filter thread instead of the 67mm thread but you would then have to source a hood and lens cap from somewhere else. It would certainly work though and look less visually intrusive than the 67mm filter because the lens diameter would not change.

 

My starting point was to be able to continue to use the hood and lens cap which comes with the lens which requires the filter glass to be mounted in the adapter ring so that the hood can fit over it - it will not fit over a 52mm filter mount. I think it's important too to be able to see the lens designation around the front of the lens and not have it obscured.

 

As regards mounting the filter, the glass has chamfered edges so that an angled recess in the front of the ring will allow the filter to seat, though it will have to be glued in place.

 

There are a few issues even with a simple component like this. Ideally, we would be retaining the thread stops but that would require the front and rear thread starts to be aligned - often, when you cut a thread into a turned item, you do not care where the thread starts. Next, the inside of the Leica hood is painted with a non-reflective paint (which flakes off) and I'm wondering whether the internal surface of the ring should be painted in the same way.

 

All in all, it's easy to see how Leica charge $180 for the hood and $50 for the filter holder!

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Guy (and any others),

 

I'd be very interested in your detailed views on the WATE versus the CV 15mm.

 

While I find the CV a fantastic, sharp lens, I feel it misses some of the Leica "magic".

 

Also, do you know of any pics of the WATE with the (mandatory) Leica filter holder ?

 

Thanks

 

Cy

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Thanks Mark,

 

Better make that another interested person in your solution !

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i can think of two alternate solutions for carrying a filter

 

just about all point and shoot cameras have wide adapters now

and they often utilise a tube to separate the lenses,

they are filter size threads and very common in 52mm x about 1" long

Raynox are a common brand

 

then there used to be a gel holder made by Cokin in all sorts of popular filter sizes

really meant to take square gels, but its not beyond taking a wider filter

all my filters are 72mm but they are wider than my 52mm Cokin mount

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Mark-

Looks like you could sell more than 10! Count me it.

 

Guy- Try some open landscape shots, too. I am loving it for that.

 

 

-Allen

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Mark-

You are an engineering star !

:)

I think you should contact Dave Elwell at Leica NJ and apprise him of your progress... Leica should get on the ball and incorporate your suggestions into the next version. If not, then you should advertize YOUR solution a la Lutz Korneman for all those WATE owners or wanabees... If your solution works, I will get my WATE.

Please keep us in the loop.

On another issue, I want to alert EVERYONE to another important issue for wide angle primes.... Hopefully LEICA is producing a series of SLIM UV/IR filters for the WA primes. Furthermore, if they are B+W based, then watch out as the B+W slim 55mm for the 24 f/2.8 does not couple successfully to the lens hood. This is a theoretical problem at the time given the 1.33X crop factor, but why buy an F-PRO (standard) mount now, when, in a few years you will have to replace it with a re-designed slim when the crop factor normalizes....

:eek:

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Guy (and any others),

 

I'd be very interested in your detailed views on the WATE versus the CV 15mm.

 

While I find the CV a fantastic, sharp lens, I feel it misses some of the Leica "magic".

 

Also, do you know of any pics of the WATE with the (mandatory) Leica filter holder ?

 

Thanks

 

Cy

 

Hi Cy,

 

A friend and I did a quick-and-dirty test of the 15CV and WATE on a tripod shooting out my window. Very unscientific, but the short answer was that the CV is ridiculously good at the center for a $300 lens, and decreases in quality to the corners. The WATE at least matches it in the center and beats it at all aperatures towards the corners. This is consistent with what Sean Reid found with the CV21mm in his 21mm lens tests.

 

I love the CV15 and will continue to use it, but $$ permitting would switch to the WATE.

 

Cheers,

 

- N.

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Mark: I'm in also on an order of your device. I'm also in by the way if you ever get a travel charger made.

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Guest guy_mancuso

The real issue is were F stop comes into play. the WATE at F4 will be a far better lens than the CV15 at 4.5. They may equal out at F8 or F11 but the WATE edge is the f stop at wide apertures. Frankly that is leica edge over most everyone is the wide open performance, there are some nice lenses out there in zeiss and CV don't get me wrong but i seem to always come back to this conclusion in the most general sense is leica just has outstanding wide open performance both on the R and the M side. Than there is flare , Ca and all of that to consider. But the CV 15 is a fine little lens and at 350 dollars is hard to beat in cost versus performance ratio. I'm thinking about have a 12mm at some point. The beauty is we have all these choices from 12mm to 135mm in three different popular companies. Can't beat those options with a stick

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Guy,

 

Our experience was that the CV was very close to the WATE in resolution at the center at 4 and 4.5 respectively. Closer than you would think. Closer than it has any right to be. It was really the outer zones -- especially the last 1/3 of the frame -- which separated the lenses. There, the Leica indeed performed much better at equal aperatures.

 

For me, the ability to focus the WATE with RF coupling is probably the more compelling advantage for me -- wide open this does make a difference, in my experience.

 

- N.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Not surprised that little 15 is very sharp lens. But i agree having it RF coupled is really the only way to shoot wide open.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Better start filling out the vouchers this is going to hurt the wallet. i shot for about a hour or so playing around and need to process a lot but here are two to really get the pen flowing

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Guest guy_mancuso

Both 16mm and the first one was at ISO 640

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Guest guy_mancuso

16mm at 5.6 for our international friends i always like to give you a cactus to look at.

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Guest guy_mancuso

One rule living in the Desert don't get drunk and try and hug a cactus. This is a Cholla or jumping cholla we like to call it 16mm at 5.6 at the minimum focusing. I am very close to this and they literally do jump off..

okay enough for now , i have house stuff to do. LOL

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