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Flange to Flange distance of a Visoflex body?


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#1 wlaidlaw

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 14:28

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I am about to initiate discussions with two Chinese adapter manufacturers about making an adapter to fit Visoflex lenses direct onto a new M body. This is I think a much better solution than using two (V to R and R to M) adapters. As it is basically just a simple extension tube, it should be much cheaper as well. A couple of references on Flange Focal distance quote the Visoflex as 40mm extension to the 27.8mm of Leica M. Now unless I have a very odd Visoflex or my digital calipers have gone screwy, I make the flange to flange distance 41mm (actually 41.03mm but that is probably caliper error). Could someone else measure the distance on theirs for me. I would hate to be the proud owner of a whole load of totally useless extension tubes!

I now regret selling my old Viso II, as that is a much better solution for fitting Viso lenses to an M body if I can't get these new adapters. On a Viso III, if you turn it to the red dot to swing the mirror out of the way, the shutter actuation lever then either fouls or gets in the way of the camera shutter release. On the Viso II, you can swing the lever out of the way and anyway the mirror stays up until reset.

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw, 01 October 2012 - 14:31.

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#2 k-hawinkler

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 15:47

Hi Wilson,

I just measured that distance again on 2 of my 4 Visoflexe IIIs. 41.00 mm is the correct answer, I believe.

Several of us went at length over this and related measurements here: http://www.l-camera-...ns-adapter.html
and certainly I initially had a misunderstanding that got straightened out by Telyt2003 here: http://www.l-camera-...080-post42.html
when Telyt2003 pointed out at the end of the post #42, quote: "... then would be that of an adapter for using Nikon reflex lenses on a M camera body"
which helped me understand the issue here: http://www.l-camera-...101-post43.html, quote:

"If I stick the two adapters together I measure an overall width of 41.00 mm."

Here is another helpful correction: http://www.l-camera-...630-post23.html, quote:

"
3) The Viso II and III is 41mm thick for M mount to M mount. NOT 40 mm as you quote. It is 40mm for the Viso II only when it is M mount in the front and LTM is the rear. (Viso II was also made for the LTM cameras).
"

I hope this helps.

Edited by k-hawinkler, 01 October 2012 - 16:20.

With best regards, K-H.

#3 k-hawinkler

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 16:04

Hi Wilson,

An additional thought.
I would extremely welcome if one version of your intended extension tube had a substantial helicoid built into it.
Please see here for a motivation: http://www.l-camera-...0-mm-f-6-a.html
That would permit accurate focusing of the Telyt 400 & 560 mm f/6.8 that have a trombone-like sliding focusing mechanism.

Thanks.
With best regards, K-H.

#4 wlaidlaw

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 16:16

Hi Wilson,

An additional thought.
I would extremely welcome if one version of your intended extension tube had a substantial helicoid built into it.
Please see here for a motivation: http://www.l-camera-...0-mm-f-6-a.html
That would permit accurate focusing of the Telyt 400 & 560 mm f/6.8 that have a trombone-like sliding focusing mechanism.

Thanks.


K-H,

I will bear it in mind for a Mk2 :)

However, I think a helicoid could make the whole adapter wobbly again, which was one of my motivations to avoid two back to back adapters.

I don't find any difficulty in focusing the 400/560 with the rack and pinion knob. My only issue is that the brake fingers released by the trigger have worn and the brake is not very effective now.

Wilson

#5 k-hawinkler

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 16:51

Hi Wilson,

I am glad you don't have a problem with focusing, but apparently I am not the only one who does.
Oh well, for what it's worth, I just connected the following four pieces:

HAWK' S Factory L -M MH TO E (with helicoid) + Novoflex LEM/LER + Leitz 14127 + Leitz OUBIO

I can't detect a wobble whatsoever.
With best regards, K-H.

#6 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:26

Confirm : 41mm is the right length of Viso II/III for M :

Viso II/III has a global flange distance of 68,8mm (see here, for example : Lens mount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
And M mount is notoriously 27,8mm

My preference is for a straight tube (and jinfinance could be a good provider, given their track record on other rings) : imho, if one needs to fine focus with the "trombone" Telyts, this means you are on tripod... better to have, at this point, some micrometric adjustment plate onto the tripod's head.

I wonder if a "blank" 6bit coding facility could have some arcane usage....:cool:

Edited by luigi bertolotti, 01 October 2012 - 20:30.


#7 wlaidlaw

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 22:35

Luigi,

At the moment I am attempting a two pronged attack. I am trying to persuade Leica to make a short run of these very simple adapters. As a back up, I have asked Roxsen in Hong Kong if they would be interested. If I get no luck with them, I will try Jinfinance and Fotodiox. Heavystar might be another thought or perhaps Tim Isaac, who did the thumb rests. With a built in thumb rest on the M, his must be a shrinking market. I do have Tim's Skype address.

Wilson

#8 k-hawinkler

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 23:21

Confirm : 41mm is the right length of Viso II/III for M :

Viso II/III has a global flange distance of 68,8mm (see here, for example : Lens mount - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
And M mount is notoriously 27,8mm

My preference is for a straight tube (and jinfinance could be a good provider, given their track record on other rings) : imho, if one needs to fine focus with the "trombone" Telyts, this means you are on tripod... better to have, at this point, some micrometric adjustment plate onto the tripod's head.

I wonder if a "blank" 6bit coding facility could have some arcane usage....:cool:



How do you focus with that? :confused:

Edited by k-hawinkler, 01 October 2012 - 23:51.

With best regards, K-H.

#9 k-hawinkler

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:41

What distances did you have in mind? Macro? Infinity?

Edited by k-hawinkler, 02 October 2012 - 01:59.

With best regards, K-H.

#10 duckrider

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:15

How do you focus with that? :confused:


As I understand, the 41mm Ring will replace only Viso-Housing.
Focussing will be done with OTZFO 16464 focussing mount, not by the 41mm M to M mount ring.


What distances did you have in mind? Macro? Infinity?


With OTZFO & 65,90 & 135 lenses infinty is in range, 200,280,400&560 mm lenses also, using their own focussing unit.

With bellows Macro is possible.


Thomas

Edited by duckrider, 02 October 2012 - 07:18.


#11 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:08

How do you focus with that? :confused:


Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear... I meant that you can adjust not the focus, but, given a certain focus set on the lens, adjust the distance from subject finely moving the whole camera set... sometime I prefer to do like this...

#12 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:35

As I understand, the 41mm Ring will replace only Viso-...Thomas


...exactly... so one can start with all of the "historical" configurations... :)

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#13 k-hawinkler

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:47

Well, my point was that the micrometric adjustment plate won't make any difference for focusing at infinity.

For that you are dependent on the Telyt / lens head (with short) focusing mount mechanism and an additional helicoid possibly built into the suggested 41 mm tube as I showed here http://www.l-camera-...0-mm-f-6-a.html.
With best regards, K-H.

#14 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:45

Well, my point was that the micrometric adjustment plate won't make any difference for focusing at infinity.

.


... right... I was "mentally set" to macro... :o
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#15 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:06

Luigi,

At the moment I am attempting a two pronged attack. I am trying to persuade Leica to make a short run of these very simple adapters. As a back up, I have asked Roxsen in Hong Kong if they would be interested. If I get no luck with them, I will try Jinfinance and Fotodiox. Heavystar might be another thought or perhaps Tim Isaac, who did the thumb rests. With a built in thumb rest on the M, his must be a shrinking market. I do have Tim's Skype address.

Wilson


I wonder... they could also make a similar device with the length of the Viso I and a 39x1 female thread in front... to say, Viso II + OUBIO... OUBIOs aren't rare... but a single-piece item could be appreciated (there were many Viso I lenses... even from 3rd parties... and Hektor 125 is a tasty lens, and there are a lot of Telyt 200 around).

#16 wlaidlaw

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:36

Luigi,

One step at a time ;)

Wilson

#17 duckrider

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:37

...device with the length of the Viso I and a 39x1 female thread in front... ...



You mean a TZFOO ring plus screw to M Adapter?

Thomas

Edited by duckrider, 02 October 2012 - 12:21.


#18 wlaidlaw

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:20

You mean a TZFOO ring plus screw to M Adpter?

Thomas


Thomas,

I think what Luigi is describing is a modern version of a TXBOO adapter. I am not sure what the length of a TXBOO adapter was, which was to fit a Telyt 200 head direct onto an M and even had a shoe on the top for a 200mm viewfinder. There are I believe various versions of the 14024 adapter, which the TXBOO was a 14024B. The other versions have different fittings but I am not sure which and none of my Leica reference books list them at all. The TZFOO or 14023 is LTM at both ends.

Below is the only reference I have to them which is from Leica USA's 1960ish guide to their accessories.

Wilson

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#19 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 13:44

You mean a TZFOO ring plus screw to M Adapter?

Thomas


exactly... or better to say a TXBOO/14024, as Wilson correctly points to :)...
(there are some around, indeed, but not so many)

It costed 30$ in 1964...

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Edited by luigi bertolotti, 02 October 2012 - 14:09.

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#20 jc_braconi

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 15:12

Thomas,

I think what Luigi is describing is a modern version of a TXBOO adapter. I am not sure what the length of a TXBOO adapter was, which was to fit a Telyt 200 head direct onto an M and even had a shoe on the top for a 200mm viewfinder. There are I believe various versions of the 14024 adapter, which the TXBOO was a 14024B. The other versions have different fittings but I am not sure which and none of my Leica reference books list them at all. The TZFOO or 14023 is LTM at both ends.

Below is the only reference I have to them which is from Leica USA's 1960ish guide to their accessories.

Wilson

wilson, it is not the Telyt 200 head but the complete lens... as it is made for the Viso's.
If you visit my web pages you will find a lot of answers for yours questions...

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