Potential new M7 owner / purchase

[Denis99]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi,

 

I'd appreciate some advice and feedback on buying a used M7.

 

I previously had a Leica X1 but sold it as it wasn't quite what I wanted in terms of digital performance and bought a Ricoh GXR camera. Happy enough with the GXR as a digital camera, and this has the added versatility of using M mount lens.

 

So I would be keeping the GXR as my digital camera as it suits alot of my needs.

 

Which leads me to the M7.

 

Would buy a used M7 from a reputable dealer or someone who has looked after it.

I would only be able to afford one lens, probably the Zeiss Biogon f2.

 

Haven't used a film camera in over 20 years but want a camera that will do the following.

 

1. Have a camera that will last me a lifetime - I'm sure the M7 will do this.

 

2. The M7 has aperture priority - this is just what I want , as I just choose the aperture I want and trust the camera.

 

3. Want a film camera to slow me down and to be used in conjunction with the digital camera. With the cost of film the M7 would be a more considered approach to taking images , as opposed to taking alot of images and then deleting some or never looking at the images etc.

 

4. Would buy a negative scanner and just have the negatives developed and then scan to my Mac.

 

5. I've gotten lazy in terms of not having digital images printed , I would tend to have the film images printed and stored in albums as opposed to virtual albums.

 

6. I would hope the M7 can give me the type of quality I'm looking for without the need for the complexity of a digital DSLR. I'd like a camera that I can have some pleasure in actually owning and using (rather than a tool to do a job - if that makes sense).

 

 

Is film still easily available (when you know where to look) - both black and white and colour.

 

 

I'd appreciate any comments and advice as I'd prefer this choice to be more of a photography hobby and stop chasing the next best digital camera solution to taking an image.

 

 

Regards

 

Denis

[Ruhayat]

Hi. I traded my M6TTL for a Leica X1 + cash, because I thought I could use the X1 as a partner for my M7 on travels. Tried it on 2 weekend trips before deciding the X1 was not a very good companion when you're used to operating an M camera. I think the GXR would be a better candidate as you get the manual controls on the lenses.

 

I had 3 M cameras at one time, but decided to sell off the M6TTL out of buyers' remorse, seeing I wasn't using it so much after I got the M7. The M7 is a great camera for travels and candids due to its AE function, and the metering is more accurate too when you use the shutter on auto as it gives you smaller incremental steps. I enjoyed the M6TTL for the 2 years that I had it, but I just preferred to use the M7 more after I got that.

 

My favourite M is still my M4-P, though, which is appreciably smaller and lighter than either the M6TTL or the M7. I use it mainly with a 28mm Leica R lens with an adapter, so it's the ultimate basic camera to me - completely manual exposing, metering and focusing - which makes it a tonne of fun.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Ruhayat]

Just to add: the M7 + Kodak Portra film beats or equals 35mm digital capture in my book. Compared to my Pentax K5 with 50mm Summicron-R, the bigger dynamic range advantage of film can easily be seen and appreciated.

[andyedward]

Luminous Landscape have a good review of the M7 on their site.

 

I also became tired of the digital upgrade merry-go-round, so sold my d3x to fund an MP, and have an M6 on loan. The difference is like night and day, and has changed the way I shoot completely

[ramosa]

in my eyes, the quality of film must be considerably better than digital. (otherwise, using digital is just much easier in assorted ways.) having had an M8 for about five years, i recently picked up an M6. (i hadn't shot film in more than 10 years!) i'm trying to figure out if it will be a short-term affair or a long-term thing.

 

as you have noted, shooting film necessitates purchasing film and getting it developed and scanned. so far, i have had one roll of portra 400 developed, and right now i have another portra 400 and several tri-x 400 rolls being developed and scanned. this will be the test, i guess. if i'm really impressed with the results, i will likely be sold ... as i love the size and feel of the M6 and the film shooting experience. i find that shooting film slows me down even more than when i shoot with my M8. about five years ago, i remember feeling that using the M8 really slowed me down as compared to using a DSLR.

 

so, again, it'll depend on if i love the images from the M6. i do tend to like film captures much more than digital ones, especially in b&w. i could see using the M6 and M8, but if i don't take strongly to film, i would probably sell both and get an ME. but i'm hoping the M6 results will blow me away and set me free on this new pathway in photography ...

[andym911]

I do just as you mention....

 

Shoot film, mostly black and white but occasional color.

I develop and scan myself, easy to do, and load all the scans into my Mac and process in Lightroom.

 

I print probably 1 or 2 of my favourites each month and frame probably 3 or 4 a year.

 

I shoot digital too but my satisfaction ONLY comes from those images shot on film.I enjoy leafing through my negative albums and touching that acetate...

 

Any Leica M is a good choice but I do understand your wish for aperture priority exposure so the M7 is a great choice.I do prefer however my M2 or M6 but that is just personal taste, the images are identical.Actually use my CL more than any of my M's :-)

Film is easy to buy so no worries there.

 

I say go ahead and give it a shot...good luck.

 

Andy

[earleygallery]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A benefit of any other film M is the entirely mechanical shutter. The M7 relies on electronics and batteries (I think there is one manual speed and .

 

Also a fully manual camera will make you think more about exposure and light, IMHO.

 

But they are all great choices!

[Guest MarcRF]

I'd skip the M7 because i find purely mechanical cameras just more tempting than a film camera with a battery...

 

but if you're fine with that fact the M7 wont disappoint you although I'm not sure about that 1 camera for a lifetime thing considering the electronics...

 

and I wouldnt cheap out on the lenses although the Zeiss are pretty good... but you're happier with any lens than with none I guess

[ramosa]

yea, if you talk to the big-time leica repair folks, they will tend to try to steer you away from the M7 to the mechanical Ms. moreover, among the M6 versions, they will tend to steer you from the M6 TTL to the M6. the general logic is that the mechanical cameras hold up better and will be repairable for longer, etc. i'd strongly recommend the M6. while you think you'll miss the AE of the M7, i have NOT found that to be the case. in fact, i have found it freeing to use manual all the time ...

[pico]

Leica offered an upgrade to the early M7 in which the mechanical DX reader was replaced with an optical reader. Some people also had the viewfinder upgraded to reduce flare.

 

I have two early M7 bodies and never bothered with the upgrades. I use only two films so I set the film speed manually, and for some reason the flare does not bother me.

 

As for the battery dependency - I keep a spare set of fresh batteries in my pocket. No problems.

[Ruhayat]

I don't have problems with battery dependency on the M7, either. Just don't press on the meter for too long, switch the camera off in between shooting and the batteries should last for... well, a very long time. I put fresh ones in when I first got mine; it's been 6 months now and still going strong.

 

So far I have lugged my M7 on backpacking trips around Southeast Asia and it's performed remarkably well. No problems encountered thus far - I feel it's about as reliable as my M6TTL it more or less replaced. Though I have to admit, I have better peace of mind when I have the M4-P with me.

 

I used to have Contax 139Q cameras that date back to the early 80's - these were similar to the M7 in that they also had AE and electronics, and I never had problems with the 2 139Qs I had before I sold them to get the M7.

[Peter_S]

Denis,

 

the M7 is wonderful tool, and I think - with what you are after - a good choice. It is, next to the MP, at the end of the M analog line, and will likely eliminate any desire to upgrade - unless to a larger format, which is another story and would be tied to change in photography style.

 

I had an M6 and M8 and changed to one M7. Because the M7 is my main camera, used in various/different situations, I like AE. In some situations I shoot the M7 like the M6, in others I use light meter, but most times AE is perhaps not required but certainly convenient. I have the "MP" finder - one of the reasons I switched, and I would recommend an M7 which has it. I did have problems with flare in my M6.

 

Whether the batteries matter, also will depend. Batteries have not been an issue much for me yet, but I have come to appreciate the mechanical "emergency" shutter speeds. When the batteries are too low to operate the shutter, they still give you a meter reading (arrows) for a while for the mechanical speeds, which is enough to keep shooting should the situation not allow for changing batteries on the spot. There are 2 mechanical speeds - 1/125 and 1/60, which actually cover quite a range of situations.You can also fairly easily memorize some aperture values for these two speeds and EV values you normally encounter. And a small lightmeter in your pocket is not a bad thing anyways.

I have missed shots with the Contax G2 and M8 because of batteries - not with the M7 (yet).

 

What I liked about the M6 were the slightly lighter weight (not much in numbers but notable when you are used to the M6) and that repair was easier + cheaper. In Austria/Germany, for example, brilliant Fotomechanik Reinhardt fixes the M6 for a fair (or better) price, whereas the M7 needs to go to Solms, where they do not work cheaply.

 

Now, that said - the camera that never gave me problems (needing no repair) even in rough use was the Contax G2, with lots more electronics than the M7. My M6, ZI and M7 all needed repair/service - and it were mechanical parts failing, not electronics. Sure, long-time wear out is an issue, but really - the M6 and M7 are not that different, and a good M7 may have as much as 15 to 20 years less wear when you buy it. So - it depends....

 

I would say - go for the M7 if it is in good condition, has the new finder and DX-upgrade. It will serve you well.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Peter_S

[kokoshawnuff]

I always hear a lot of people saying how undepenable the electronic based M7s are. They've most likely never used one, rather relaying rumors they've read or heard from users of the original (2002 M7). I've not heard such claims from peopl who own the 2004+ M7s. If you want the M7, get it...I did and love it. As for batteries I always keep them with me, but in 7 months and over 150 rolls I've not yet had to change a battery.

 

Do yourself a favor and buy the most advanced film camera Leica will ever make and enjoy the times when the AE can be invaluable. As of now I've seen used ones going for as low as $1600 (and consistently sub $2000 from dealers)...an amazing price considering used MPs are $3000+ and M6ttls are $1400+

[philipus]

1. Have a camera that will last me a lifetime - I'm sure the M7 will do this.

 

 

I would think it would. The only thing that might not be serviceable, though who knows, would be the electronics. I considered an M7 (see next point) but went for the TTL which to me is the best of the all-mechanical and slightly electric worlds.

 

2. The M7 has aperture priority - this is just what I want , as I just choose the aperture I want and trust the camera.

 

The reason i considered an M7 is that for 20 years I have used my EOS cameras virtually solely in aperture priority mode. However because my first Leica was an M3 and I loved the ability to use the camera in full manual with all shutter speeds working ohne battery, I chose the M6TTL. To me this is the perfect M.

 

4. Would buy a negative scanner and just have the negatives developed and then scan to my Mac.

 

There are several options out there, ranging from used Nikon Coolscans and Minoltas to consumer flatbeds to (used only) pro flatbeds and drum scanners (which can be had for amazingly little though are large, may involve costly repairs, require regular maintenance and a lot of practice) to the Imacons (used and new; comparably inexpensive to very very expensive). Personally I use a Nikon Coolscan V which I will use until it breaks down (touch wood, there hasn't been a problem with it for close to ten years...). It gives pretty good results actually once one has learnt to tweak the scanner software's (I use Vuescan) settings. Many members of this forum are happy with the Epson flatbeds (there are many threads).

 

6. I would hope the M7 can give me the type of quality I'm looking for without the need for the complexity of a digital DSLR. I'd like a camera that I can have some pleasure in actually owning and using (rather than a tool to do a job - if that makes sense).

 

All film Ms will give the same quality; the lenses are the enabling/limiting factor. What is more important in picking a film body is which appeals to you in terms of usefriendliness. I can only say that I really like using my TTL, having used M3 and M4, this is the one that fits me the best. I bring it with me almost everywhere and find it extraordinarily intuitive to use. And I like, too, that it challenges me more than my EOS cameras did and do.

 

Is film still easily available (when you know where to look) - both black and white and colour.

 

There are loads of places to buy film. I see you're in Europe so (and I hope it is permitted to mention them) check AG Photographic, Macodirect, Nordfoto, Fujifilm.co.uk for instance. Ebay is another source. Plus, if you're lucky (in terms of convenience; price-wise it would likely cost more than online), photo shops where you live.

[philipus]

As for batteries I always keep them with me, but in 7 months and over 150 rolls I've not yet had to change a battery.

 

Alex, wow that's really impressive. I had to switch after 70 rolls, though I did shoot them in just under 5 months.

[Denis99]

Thank you for all the replies - I'm truly very grateful.

 

I've been trawling the web looking at some of the options discussed, and some links to M7's for sale.

 

I'm considering an M6 for some of the reasons put forward in the replies. A plus is that they can be obtained a bit cheaper.

 

I used manual exposure on my Canon dSLR's so it wouldn't be totally new to me - I even carried a Sekonic light meter when I used Pocket Wizards and remote flash.

 

I'll continue to have a look for either the M6 or M7 now.

[Guest MarcRF]

might be worth mentioning that the ergonomics of the shutter dial of the M6ttl are far superior in my opinion. sometimes bigger is better...

[earleygallery]

I always hear a lot of people saying how undepenable the electronic based M7s are. They've most likely never used one, rather relaying rumors they've read or heard from users of the original (2002 M7). I've not heard such claims from peopl who own the 2004+ M7s. If you want the M7, get it...I did and love it. As for batteries I always keep them with me, but in 7 months and over 150 rolls I've not yet had to change a battery.

 

As I raised the issue of electronics I'd like to respond to this.

 

I have owned a Leica R3 from new, pretty much an SLR version of the M7 (AE auto exposure, electronic shutter) and it's been 100% reliable. However, if it does go wrong one day, that will be it. It simply won't be economically repairable. Hopefully it will give me many more years of service yet.

 

The point is, a mechanical M is always repairable, by pretty much any competent camera repairer - not just the famous Leica specialists.

 

Great though an M7 is, there will likely come a point when, as with the R3, it isn't economical to repair.

 

As the OP mentioned a 'camera for life' in this regard a mechanical M must surely be a safer bet.

 

Not saying that the M7 isn't a great camera and won't give years of reliable service.

[Stealth3kpl]

I went back to film. I really don't like the thought of going back to digital although I bought a GXR recently. I love to use my two M2s. There are plenty of places to get film in the UK. I tend to buy from AG Photographic (they'll also develop your negs). Many purchase from First Call or 7 day shop. At the moment if you go into Poundland you can purchase 36 exposure Agfa C41, or 24 exposure Kodak C41 for a pound a pop.

Try a few different M cameras in a Leica shop before purchasing. I went through an MP and an M6 before settling on my perfect brace.

Pete

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[budrichard]

As I raised the issue of electronics I'd like to respond to this.

 

I have owned a Leica R3 from new, pretty much an SLR version of the M7 (AE auto exposure, electronic shutter) and it's been 100% reliable. However, if it does go wrong one day, that will be it. It simply won't be economically repairable. Hopefully it will give me many more years of service yet.

 

The point is, a mechanical M is always repairable, by pretty much any competent camera repairer - not just the famous Leica specialists.

 

Great though an M7 is, there will likely come a point when, as with the R3, it isn't economical to repair.

 

As the OP mentioned a 'camera for life' in this regard a mechanical M must surely be a safer bet.

 

Not saying that the M7 isn't a great camera and won't give years of reliable service.

 

Film will most likely be 'extinct by the time electronic components are not available to fix an M7.

With your logic you would never purchase a new vehicle, appliance or have anything other than tube amplifiers (tubes are now made in China!).-Dick