Monochrome frenzy

[wattsy]

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So it is feasible to use three filters to capture colour images with the MM by using filters. Is that right?

 

Yes, absolutely. In essence, that's how all sensors work.

[Rick]

If, digital cameras were meant to take color they wouldn't need Bayer filters. Color is technological trickery and unnatural. B&W sensors are pure digital.

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So it is feasible to use three filters to capture colour images with the MM by using filters. Is that right?

 

In principle, yes. In practical real-life situations it might be a bit difficult to apply. "Feasible" might be expressing it a bit strongly. The most difficult part lies in preventing the scene from changing between shots.

[Messsucherkamera]

I read with some interest the Monochrome threads. Now, for me - who does not shoot B/W, at least for now - the question is, am I a limited photographer not wanting to take B/W pictures and not desiring a MM?

Not wanting the newest, most expensive thing?? What an outrage!

 

It's because of selfish people like you that the global economy is in a shambles!

Edited September 8, 2012 by Messsucherkamera

[philipus]

In principle, yes. In practical real-life situations it might be a bit difficult to apply. "Feasible" might be expressing it a bit strongly. The most difficult part lies in preventing the scene from changing between shots.

 

This is what I thought. In pretty much any real-world situation using filters to conjure up a colour image using the MM by making several exposures is not a practical or realistic solution.

[myshkine]

Not wanting the newest, most expensive thing?? What an outrage!

 

It's because of selfish people like you that the global economy is in a shambles!

 

After writing twice a reply, and twice losing my connection, and therefore what I had written, I sum up by saying that I'm worried by the acceleration of the interval between new Leica models. I mean, people are dumping M9's (a camera that, by Leica standards, is still in its infancy) in anticipation of the Monochrome and the M10. Leica models used to last years, or even decades before being superseded by another. Of course, the economy has completely changed and the market is fast. But Leica has built its reputation on cameras that should last a lifetime and I don't know if this pace of product replacements will suit well its longstanding image of exclusivity and quality.

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Sinar had an early three shot color system and many early photographers shot separation negatives either individually or with beam splitter cameras. The three film Technicolor process worked this way and b/w separation negs are made to archive color motion pictures.

 

That type of approach was a very practical and realistic solution for this man:

 

The Prokudin-Gorskii Photographic Record Recreated: Photographer to the Tsar - The Empire That Was Russia | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

 

Yes. But then, photographing on glass plates was a fairly slow process to begin with. Also, some of the examples show what happens if the scene changes between shots. A nice example is the man on a small boat on a river. The flowing water shows a nice set of rainbow colors.

 

This does not subtract from the marvel and beauty of those images. It does show, however, that much depends on the scene remaining immobile between exposures.

[philipus]

people are dumping M9's (a camera that, by Leica standards, is still in its infancy) in anticipation of the Monochrome and the M10.

 

Even Leica has to run with the pack in terms of digital development. How else will they otherwise retain old and obtain new digital customers? Not everyone is as intrigued (rightly, I should add after having used it myself) by the Digilux 2 many years after its demise. Once a camera is seen as old, only enthousiasts will buy it.

 

As other threads have shown (notably the one about the M8's LCD) what Leica will have to figure out is how to ensure the serviceability of their digital cameras to remain true to the image they project of their digital Ms, i.e. that of being long-time reliable tools in the vein of the film Ms (or at least something like it).

 

In light of the fact that humans are inherently given to follow (and spread) rumours and doubt the choices they have made, I'm not in the slightest surprised that there are so many M9s being sold off currently. Once an M10 materialises that ratio is going to increase.

 

Shopping galore for anyone who's ever wanted a full frame digital M.

 

Philip

[brianv]

So it is feasible to use three filters to capture colour images with the MM by using filters. Is that right?

 

You would use a color wheel with color separation filters, make three images, then combine them in Photoshop. Kodak sold a color wheel for use in Studio settings that connected to the monochrome camera, made three sequential images. You could also buy three M Monochrom cameras and use a beamsplitter like the Technicolor process. It's been done before.

[brianv]

If, digital cameras were meant to take color they wouldn't need Bayer filters. Color is technological trickery and unnatural. B&W sensors are pure digital.

 

That was the idea behind Foveon sensors- color without the use of Mosaic filters.

[rpsawin]

FWIW....the only limitations on you as a photographer are the ones you accept. Shoot what moves you and what makes you feel like you are doing good work. Not everyone will like it and some will be ignorant about it. Ignore them.

 

Good luck and best regards,

 

Bob

[jaapv]

That was the idea behind Foveon sensors- color without the use of Mosaic filters.

But still filters, albeit layered, like film.

The method Brian is proposing is the Prokudin-Gorski method from 1904

 

Sorry, no Leicas yet back then, so no Leica shot. Copyright expired.

Note that the dog moved between the shots.

 

 

 

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Edited September 9, 2012 by jaapv

[myshkine]

FWIW....the only limitations on you as a photographer are the ones you accept. Shoot what moves you and what makes you feel like you are doing good work. Not everyone will like it and some will be ignorant about it. Ignore them.

 

Good luck and best regards,

 

Bob

 

BTW, I am at least very grateful for the fact that the photo section of this forum does not divide colour and B/W pictures. Some other forums do, which I find odd.

[brianv]

But still filters, albeit layered, like film.

The method Brian is proposing is the Prokudin-Gorski method from 1904

 

 

 

[ATTACH]334161[/ATTACH]

 

Now that is art.

 

The next, big thing in color photography!

[adan]

Prokudin-Gorski's greatest achievement lay in preventing his subjects from falling out of pose laughing while he scrambled to swap filters and change film holders.

 

Those hunters seem a bit - bemused.

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(...) while he scrambled to swap filters and change film holders. (...)

 

He might have some contraption which sped up the changing of filters and plates. The article mentioned says as much, IIRC.

 

Speaking of speed: any guesses as to exposure times, given the liberal depth of field?

[jaapv]

Of course, he was building on known technology. The first photograph using this method was by Maxwell in 1861.

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Prokudin studied under Prof. Miethe and he used a camera designed by Miethe:and built by Bermpohl:

 

 

The main contribution of Produkin-Gorski was the perfection of the colour emulsions.

 

 

Miethe invented the magnesium flash btw.

Edited September 10, 2012 by jaapv

[Printmaker]

So it is feasible to use three filters to capture colour images with the MM by using filters. Is that right?

 

23A, 47, 58 though some people feel that using the 25 or the 29 red filters will give you richer blues.

 

But why bother? Dye-transfer is history. Color seps are history. What we have now is the best it ever has been... 2 1/4 quality from 35 mm style sensors, 4x5 quality from MF backs, etc. Our current tools rock! A plain Jane M9 gives better B&W JPEGS than most of us could get from 35 mm film developed and enlarged in a wet darkroom. Sure, some people can make TriX sing, but you have to spend a lot of time in the dark before your skills get to that point. Now the MM takes us to the next level. So why not want one? And, until the M10 or whatever else Leica offers becomes available, what else do we have to talk about?

[brianv]

23A, 47, 58 though some people feel that using the 25 or the 29 red filters will give you richer blues.

 

But why bother?

 

No reason except to dig junk out of the basement. Someday I will throw out the CP/m computer.

 

The only color wheel that I've used with practical application was from the 1980s, a Polaroid Palette that used a high-res monochrome CRT and a three-filter color wheel to transfer computer-generated color images to film; and a Microtek slide scanner that made three passes to scan in a color slide. This was before good quality color printers and single-pass scanners. Both are in the basement...

 

The Kodak DCS cameras had a color wheel that connected to the camera to make three separate exposures, I did not buy one.

Edited September 10, 2012 by brianv

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Messsucherkamera]

After writing twice a reply, and twice losing my connection, and therefore what I had written, I sum up by saying that I'm worried by the acceleration of the interval between new Leica models. I mean, people are dumping M9's (a camera that, by Leica standards, is still in its infancy) in anticipation of the Monochrome and the M10. Leica models used to last years, or even decades before being superseded by another. Of course, the economy has completely changed and the market is fast. But Leica has built its reputation on cameras that should last a lifetime and I don't know if this pace of product replacements will suit well its longstanding image of exclusivity and quality.

Maybe they should consider dumping them for a film M.

 

Just a suggestion...